saying BHC is now broken is fucking absurd, even with it hitting on the way up its far from broken. Dont jump in on vega when he’s sitting on charge and has ultra.
RCF startup isnt going to change anything, RCF sucks in general and having it start faster isnt going to do anything other then make chip damage easier to come by.
And Kara’d moves can be deceptive, a slight movement forward can be a game changer, Zangiefs kara glove is from st. hk which barely moves him forward. This alone made the blanka matchup go from retarded to in geifs favor.
Yeah, BHC isn’t broken…there’s a vid of it being stuffed still.
RCF having a faster startup will make it better for Vega. It’s the fact that Vega now has a tool to get chip damage without putting himself in a punishable state. When you’re as weak in damage as Vega…you’ll need it.
Yeah, kara moves are good. Thing is, Hawk likely will have a horrible kara since none of his moves move him forward in the slightest.
Also, I don’t see typhoon having slower startup than SPD.
I didn’t say that Vega’s U1 will be broken.
I said that some players that have already tested the game they said that his U1 now consider to be broken.
How good or how bad is it? I don’t know.
I’m just say what i’m reading…
And here it is=>
But this isn’t the thread for Vega so we have to return to T.Hawk.
I think that if T.Hawk have karas the most usefull more for that will be Condor Spire.
It will catch the opponent out of balance.But we have to see about these.
Who ever wrote that is way too optimistic about vega. /end discussion.
im really sad to see how unsafe condor dive is on block, but im assuming it can be triangle jumped and if its a high priority move ( which it looks like ) T. Hawk is going to have one of the best overheads in the game. I cant wait to get my hands on this game, i cant wait theres so much shit we just cant know until it drops.
TO be optimistic isn’t a bad thing.Most of the times optimism is a way to see good things even if they are bad.To be pessimistic though sometimes it’s much worse.Especially for something that we haven’t see yet or tested.
Anyway…
I think its more important to be a good cross up.And from what i have seen up until now Condor Dive takes a lot of advantage as a move from the air.Generally is a good move.
It would be excellent if it was safe.And if not quite safe, then safe as it can possible be.
start up on typhoon is going to be a big deal, theres twice as many grapplers now as in SF4 where basically it was just abels TT trumping everything geif had. This is going to be really interesting to see, if typhoon is as fast as abels TT then hes going to be one of the best grapplers in SF history ( mainly because of the mechanics of SF4 ). I like the distance at which he can punish fireballs with condor dive, imo this is whats going to set him apart from abel and geif.
I’m not sure if this is what you were intending with that sentence but I’ll just say it anyway just incase. Abel’s TT is like 3 frames slower than Giefs SPD and it’s the same speed as Honda’s cmd grab. The reason Abel’s TT beats out any of Giefs throws is because regular TT is throw invulnerable so he can’t be thrown duing it all. Besides that one thing Giefs SPD I think trumps it in every other area iirc.
Now if you weren’t implying that Abel’s TT was faster than disregard this.
Jarekov Abel’s CT is invulnerable to throws while Gief’s not.
It’s Not the speed while Gief’s is 2 frames.
It’s the nature of Abel’s command throw.
If T.Hawk has the same action then it will be by far the best grab in Street fighter.
Which one?
Both are doing great damage.
But i think Gief’s U2 is by far more damaging.
I suspect that T.Hawk’s U1 may cost the same damage as Gief’s in SFIV.Meaining 600 dmg.
But i think that it will be the same as Gief’s is now.
Nice to see people are still abroad the T. Hawk train even though all the characters have dropped.
Uh…two things.
Unless Condor Dive magically turns around if you cross-up someone know, I don’t see how you can triangle jump someone with it. I doubt you can do it low enough to the ground, either, though it would be nice.
Has it been confirmed that Condor Dive actually hits overhead now? I’m pretty sure it still doesn’t, if only because it never has IIRC.
I should be. Both of his Ultras can’t be FADC’d into–well, Ultra I at least, Ultra II might be able to have some shenanigans yet if Gief’s Ultra II can.
Regardless, if I use T. Hawk, I’ll probably sticking with Ultra II now anyway between Abel’s Tornado Throw being throw invulnerable and because it makes people want to jump less.
and to the damned… i understand condor hasnt been an overhead but it makes sense in the SF4 engine for it to be one. correct me if im wrong but cant all arieal specials be tiger knee’d/triangled, maybe my lingo is fucked up im talking about using dive very low to the ground tiger kneeing it, if it does work like an air borne move should then this would be a great over head. also there might be weird hit states involved with it like cammys air spiral ( dont know name ), allowing combos like lvl 2 FA Tiger knee EX condor dive until meter runs out. this is all speculation but speculation is fun.
both ultras, i didnt say they would trump geif, just that the damage was very good.
dont know if this has been discussed but condor spire looks like it can be used in the same way as blankas horizontal ball to set up throws, the difference is typhoon is fucking scary as opposed to a normal throw.
Your speculation is not realizing the inherent contradiction (or brokenness) in what your proposing:
[list=1]
[]If it can be done really low to the ground (triangle jump, as you said; I was thinking of something else), then it won’t be an overhead. Cammy’s Cannon Strike, Rufus’s dive kick and Dhalsim’s aerial moves are able to done really low to the ground, but they are all crouch-blockable.
[]On the opposite side of that, I believe things like Akuma’s dive kick, Gouken’s dive kick and Seth’s dive kick (since they’re all the same move, really) that have to be done at the peak of their jump are overheads.
[/list]
Since T. Hawk’s only requisite for the Condor Dive is that he as to not be jumping backward (and doesn’t have an independent EX one to be able to do this at all), I’m sure you can triangle jump it.
However, wanting it to be able to done low to the ground and be an overhead? Lol. There’s no precedent that. Otherwise Rufus (and Cammy) would be Top Tier (if not God Tier) in the original game. Sure, you can’t combo after Condor Dive like you can Cannon Strike or Falcon Kick (I think that’s the official name for fat-ass’s dive kick; I don’t care to check since I hate him) since it knocks down, but that would still be immensely nasty, especially since he has what looks like a fairly solid DP, anti-air Ultra and fairly dangerous special grab.
Outside of maybe using really low Condor Dives on someone’s wake-up to fake a hit and then grab them, I don’t think it’s going to have much of a use (due to Condor Spire) unless it makes the recovery of using it almost completely negligible.
I think that’s pretty much what everyone was talking about with regards to Condor Spire. It’s basically a forward dash, meter builder and tick fodder all-in-one.
It’s really weird that the Korean player didn’t even try to use it once, especially since it seems like it should go over a good amount of low normals and Bison loves c.lk the shit out of you up close.
Just wanted to add to this, that I know that Gouken’s dive kick (not 100% sure about Akuma/Seth) must be blocked low if they hit you near your feet. Not sure if Cammy or Rufus dive kicks have properties like this, probably not.
As a sometimes Cammy player, I can vouch that Cannon Strike can be blocked crouching or standing regardless of where it hits.
Pretty much the same as everything Cammy has, actually, considering that’s her biggest weakness: only special of hers that needs any special blocking is Cannon Drill, which hits low; she has no overheads.
So, does EX Condor Dive take an extra stock? That’s what your first sentence implied to me. Considering that Hawk can’t FADC Tomahawk Buster, and Condor Spire’s pretty safe supposedly, if EX Dive took an extra stock, it wouldn’t be that big of a bother really. Just wouldn’t see EX Spire > EX Tomahawk + Dive often.
I believe it does from what I remember seeing months ago.
However, I haven’t been keeping up with SSF4 stuff nearly as much as everyone else, especially for the past two weeks, so anyone should feel free to correct me.
Like The Damned(by the way Great Avatar with Aikanu) said very right Dive’s (generally like Cammy’s and Rufus) only working for cross ups or for pressure.
There are not Overhead moves.For God sake.
The only Dive i know for sure that is an overhead move is Juri’s.
But then again it works completely different from the other Dive moves.
And ofcourse because it’s an overhead and can hit from afar its very unsafe on block.
I can say that it’s fair enough.
T.Hawk’s must be something like between Cammy’s and Rufus Dive.
Can’t jump backwards and execute it but he can do it with delay or not and when his jumping or jump forward.
It can be a great cross up though.
As for that i agree totally…
The thing is, Jarekov that some things of that we already said is the core of T.Hawk’s gameplay since for ever.
Now its the same here with a little more additions to his gameplay but from what you ve said up until now it seems that you haven’t played T.Hawk before.
It’s not a top tier character.He seems very good though and pretty solid but it’s not a beast.
You should know that T.Hawk isn’t Zangief.
He was more technical character from Zangief and he will probably be the same here.
You should know some things before you play serious this character (and that goes for everyone especially to these players that never played T.Hawk before) because some people they thing that plays with Zangief is the same to play T.Hawk.So wrong!Also some people think that T.Hawk is the new best grabber in the game.We’ ll see for that.Zangief still has Lariat even if it has got a little nerf.
EX Condor Spire->EX Tomahawk->EX Condor Dive connects.
Is that what you are asking?
