Has anyone given VIPER tactics a go?
I’ve been messing around with far st.jab -> negative edge Typhoon.
Especially versus Guile it has it’s merits, as I saw in a VIPER vs. Guile match. In the corner far st.jab -> negative edge Typhoon, Guile’s reversa gets blocked and eats far st.strong, rinse and repeat.
The only thing that pisses me off is that I have to delay the 360 motion after far st.jab tick, the timing is a little off, when you’re used to tick from cr.jab or cr.short.
Viper?
What?
FYI - Most of the players around here don’t know what the official names of anything is / are…
What are you talking about? As far as I know, Viper vs. Guile means SF4.
Viper is the name of a Japanese T.Hawk player.
Those having trouble with 360s practice on HDR, the whiff animation lets you know when you do it too fast.
Ohhh seems like a cool tactic, I’ll try it out next time I’m able to play versus a live opponent.
Usually RSX has good advice, but not this time. Learning it with the whiff animation in HDR is nice and all, but the HDR inputs are also easier. (HCB, F+P or HCF, B+P) so you could be doing it all wrong but the game thinks you’re doing it right.
Just go into FBA or CLassic mode on HDR and learn it.
Well I already have good execution, I meant to learn the timing. If you need help on execution HDR/SF4 is the last place to go.
sako (o.hawk) has a really nice game going. Awesome that nohoho uploads an old video from 2007 with sako against Nuki.
sako uses far st.jab -> typhoon really really well. He doesn’t seem to negative edge it though.
nohoho mentioned a long time ago that far st.jab can stuff reversals if you hit from maximum range.
[media=youtube]N1HmwufmEHY[/media]
I’ve been messing with O.Hawk for some time now and I could never consistently walking 360 with negative edge. When I’d press Fierce however, I could get it most every time. At first I thought it had to do with my timing, which it still probably does, but I also found that Hawk can cancel the startup of both his close and far st.Fierce into a Typhoon.*
I don’t know if this is a known trick, but I think it’s a good trick to get around his quck jump startup. My theory is, the startup of st.Fierce gives him some more frames on the ground. Right now I do 360 from forward, back to up + Fierce ~ Jab, in case I’m outside of Fierce range and to get 2 extra inputs to get the Tyhpoon out without the danger of doing an accidental low Dive.
Surprisingly, if you mess it up you very rarely get a st.Fierce or jump back Fierce for some reason, just a jump back.
Of course this is just my preferred way of doing it, it just works for me and gives me more confidence to standing 360 people. I just thought I’d share this with my feloow Hawkers, might benefite someone.
I still negative edge from ticks though. I’m gonna practice that far st.Jab tick now, looks like a really good addition to Hawk’s arsenal.
*If you look closely, you can see his arm go back for the far st.Fierce. It looks great when you cancel close st.Fierce into Typhoon, because the downward motion of his arms moves seemlessly into the spinning motion of the Typhoon, kinda like the startup they used in his A3 version, now that I think about it…
OK I dont know where nki’s site is at, what are the ranges of the 360’s for hawk
:bgrin:Thx
There’s a load of treasures on nohoho’s blog. VirtuaFighterFour asked a billion dollar question about the safe-jump DP INSTALL, and here’s what nohoho replied:
*T.Hawk
Yeah you see the trick in this post most often with hawk players.
safe jump jab ->
(built-in dp) ->
crouching jab ->
(hit confirm combo) ->
negative edge typhoon ->
(another dp)
For something like that even Honda can’t escape. Without the option select DP at the beginning (and end) he might have to block a special move and not be able to loop.
*
- nohoho
Full article:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5234895930461762189&postID=1871096441414787756
I’m definitely gonna mess around with Rising Hawk INSTALL INSTALL INSTALL later.
[media=youtube]T0e6kBLaJ2o[/media]
The last Ohnuki (N.Chun) vs Sako (O.Hawk) video is up. I’ll do a larger writeup on the matches later tonight. There were some mistakes by Ohnuki, like putting himself in range of Hawk’s reversal command throw on wakeup or landing a few times. Sako really tormented Ohnuki using O.Hawk’s superior standing jab throughout the series. Sako’s ticks are Chun specific but one of them, meaty far standing jab into command throw, is basically impossible to hit confirm. So you’d see Sako throw out far standing jab as a meaty or just as a tick, have it whiff against a reversal, and then he’d leap into the air because hit confirming the one move is likely too hard and the jump would be caused by the up direction from an attempted command throw. Tons to learn from this series.
[media=youtube]072k_vdclPE&#t=1m37s[/media]
Prepare to be amazed by VIPER. He does a kara cancel of a walking jab into SUPER. This is probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen for N.Hawk.
According to T.Akiba’s frame data all of N.Hawk’s jabs have four frames of start-up. Close, far, and crouching jab each have four frames of start-up time before their active frames come out. That means that VIPER was able to rotate the joystick at least 1.5 times during that four frames window
We know that 2-in-1s allow for motion overlap within combos. So if you want to combo Ryu’s low forward into his red fireball you can do: back, down+back, down+forward kick, down+forward, forward+fierce punch, and you’ll get the combo. This means that you can incorporate the first half of a rotation into a standing jab if you want to do an empty normal into SUPER.
So the first part of the entire sequence would be: back, down+back, down, down+forward, forward+jab. Once you hit ‘forward+jab’ then you have only four frames to continue to rotate the joystick an additional 1.5 times and then hit another punch command to cancel the start-up of the standing jab into a SUPER.
I agree it’s the most insane thing ever, but don’t you think that first whiffed jab might have something to do with it? Like already inputting some of the rotation while whiffing that one, then finishing the motion and kara cancelling the second jab for the super?
Maybe, but you see Hawk walk forward after the first jab, meaning he’s definitely holding forward for a few frames after that first jab in order to both walk and get the close standing jab that he cancels into Super. I don’t think that the Super Throw motion for N.Hawk is lenient enough to allow for someone to take a full step forward in between rotations and have the Super still come out.
Let’s say that the first jab is included in that set up. Then what is the full set of motions?
Qcf,+p for the first whiffing standing jab, then, while that move is whiffing, you finish the first rotation. Then you must keep rotating while the jab is recovering until you reach the forward direction. The move ends, you are facing forward now, you walk forward and do another whiffed jab, and during the first four frames of that jab you complete the second rotation for a kara-cancel Super.
One thing I just found while testing on my U.S. ST cabinet is that you don’t need to actually hit the up command for T.Hawk’s Super to come out. I tried doing a standing forward kick, point blank against Ken, and then doing hcfx3+p and I got a Super Throw. I even tried hcfx2,b+p after a standing forward and got a Super Throw to come out. The inputs need to be lightning fast, I could barely get a Super to come out this way consistently because the timing must be extremely tight. I even tried this on an ST Rom while disabling the ‘up’ direction on my joystick and managed to get a Super to come out. So any chance of me accidentally hitting ‘up’ was eliminated.
So maybe he isn’t even using full rotations including the ‘up’ direction in this set up. Either way this stuff is way advanced. This is the only time I’ve ever see someone do walk-up kara cancel like that with N.Hawk’s Super.
Viper had more time than 4 frames. He had at least 12 frames if not more (4 startup, 4 hitting, 4 recovery frames). He didn’t kara cancel the 1st jab, but he did kara cancel the 2nd jab. After he stuffed the Torpedo with cr jab, he took a step forward, whiffed a st Jab, took another step forward and then kara cancelled a 2nd st Jab into Super. Assuming he started from a db position, he could have done: db, d, df, f, Jab, uf, u, ub, b, db, d, df, f, Jab, uf, u, ub, b, db.
So he only had to do the last part uf, u, ub, b, db in 4 frames. That’s the equivalent of a hcf. Not the hardest thing in the world to do. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s not exactly “ridiculous” either.
Nice find VirtuaFighterFour. Really awesome to actually have it done in a match.
Inomata does cr.jab -> st.jab -> SUPER
Also I really enjoyed reading your test results. I’ll have to mess around with it later.
Yes, which means cancelling it during its startup, i.e. those first four frames.
Also, it’s not about that last bit of the motion. It’s about incorporating all those motions within the jabs and making sure it kara cancels. The whole thing together is extremely tight and very dangerous to try and use. Evidently, he was confident enough to actually throw it out and take the round, knowing that if it worked, he’d take his opponent completely by surprise.