yeah, looks like in the vid he’s starting with down/back and 360ing to down/back instead of down to down. been practicing both ways and getting the same results. i just don’t have ggpo to test it out. think i’ll practice another week or so and see if anyone on psn can help.
at 7:57, is that OS the dp/block one? he says that there’s no way out of it for ryu, but ryu can just block can’t he? i’m missing something.
Built-in dragon punch. As N.Ryu’s Shoryuken has less invulnerability than Hawk’s and still has to be used first, he always gets knocked down if he tries a reversal Shoryuken. The only way out is if Hawk times a safe jump that hits sort of high, but it is still a safe jump, and Ryu uses his Tatsu. Then, if Hawk also lands right on top of Ryu and the Rising Hawk comes out just a tiny bit late, there is a chance that the Tatsu will hit Hawk from behind. This all is quite unlikely: odds are N.Ryu will eat the deep Rising Hawk, which does a lot of damage, unless it is the Fierce version. The only way out is the super, if N.Ryu does not get read.
If Ryu blocks everything, he will eat the Typhoon at the end. Then, the best option is to try a reversal Short Tatsu, and hope Hawk screws up somehow. Against the option-selects, Shoryukens are useless, as N.Ryu either gets instantly thrown as soon as the invulnerability ends, gets hit as the invulnerability ends, or gets thrown or comboed as he lands from the move.
this is what i was missing. “everything,” you mean the block string of cr.jabs into typhoon/dp OS. i was thinking there was a window of opportunity if ryu blocks and hawk’s rising dp doesn’t come out. you’re saying that if ryu blocks, then hawk can immediately start his crouch jabs and there is absolutely nothing ryu (n.ryu specifically) can do about it. thnx.
for clarification, there are only 4 option selects for t.hawk? thanks.
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sako special- standing jab-walking forward 360/block OS.
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typhoon buster- 360/dp OS.
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dp install- dp/block OS.
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360 negative edge- 360/block OS.
The safe jump Rising Hawk install is better against characters that can push Hawk out, such as Cammy with her Cannon Spike or Dee Jay with a perfectly timed MGU block string. The Rising Hawk will beat those moves. On the other hand he does not actually need it against N.Ryu, he can just block the reversal SRK and Typhoon him right after. If he does that against S2 Ryu, he has no way out either, but the lucky Tatsu. Note that Hawk can just crouch and use Fierce or Strong to hit the Tatsu: escaping the loop with it still demands that he screws up.
Hawk has the same option-selects from the shotos that are related to the Shoryuken, but shotos’ can all be countered by reversal throw, and Hawk does not need to risk that. He can also use a cr.Jab st.Jab block string to catch reversal Tatsus on wake-up before they become active, but that is not a real option-select.
Apparently all of Hawk’s jumping normals will lose to Bison’s crouch Forward. I always thought the jump Fierce will at least not lose, but after some testing, I figured out it will lose if the spacing is too far.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9941/hawkbisoncrfwd.png
If it’s done from close range though, that’s when jump Fierce will beat crouch Forward.
The top screen shot’s distance will hit bison as well. The red box is just low enough that it will hit bisons leg. You have to push fierce late though.
Do you play hawk?
I mostly spectate.
This is what I thought also. But I ran this test frame-by-frame in mame-rr, and I can’t get Hawk’s jump Fierce to touch Bison’s foot. I can get the Fierce hitbox to almost touch it (much lower than the image I posted), but then it’s interrupted by Hawk’s post-jump animation, which results in Bison’s foot hitting him. I counted the frames and hit Fierce exactly one frame later, and Hawk doesn’t complete the Fierce animation and lands, which also results in getting hit by the crouch Forward.
I would love to be proven wrong though, as I always thought that Hawk’s Fierce could beat Bison’s crouch Forward if done late enough. But according to my test it doesn’t.
You are probably right then. I guess you just have to aim for Mr Bison’s shoulder. I used to jump in with fierce because I felt that it had longer range. But if what you say about the fierce animation not going low enough to the ground to hit his leg, I’ll start jumping in with mk instead. I know that one reaches to the floor.
I haven’t tested so I’m going to have to take your word for it. But on a side note, I know for sure that jumping fierce will hit sims slide when jumping mk loses to it. I think sims slide gets lower then the leg of bisons cr mk. Thats why I’m skeptical of your findings.
What about O.hawk’s j.Fierce? I t has a bigger hitbox.
I just checked the hitbox data. In this case the size of the hit box is not the main problem. N hawks j fierce retracts really fast so what you’re saying is probably right. O hawks j fierce stays out much longer, so O hawk will hit it for sure.
It looks like for N hawk vs Mr Bison, jump mk would be the preferred method to jump in with.
Paper is almost always wrong, so I think I will test this too.
Edit: it looks like it does not work. 
Edit2: it also does not stuff Guile’s cr.fwd.
^^Agreed with that. I also tested with O.Hawk, his jump Fierce cannot hit the leg of Bison’s crouch Forward either. Also tested N.Hawk’s jump Forward, it has less vertical range than the jump Fierce, so it cannot strike Bison’s leg either. But it does have more horizontal range than the jump Fierce, so it can hit Bison’s shoulder from farther out than the Fierce.
I also tested both Hawks’ jumping Fierce vs Sim’s slide: O.Hawk’s Fierce will always beat the slide from any range as long as it is timed late, but N.Hawk’s Fierce can only beat it from very close range where it can hit Sim’s head.
Also, the blue hitbox on Bison’s leg is lower than the hitbox on Sim’s slide.
These images are 1 frame apart:
i do agree that i’m usually wrong. thats how i get into your mind. think about that.
Nobody is saying you’re wrong Paper. I would have agreed with you and others if I didn’t have mame-rr to test this stuff. I’m just glad I cleared up a misconception that I had in my own head about Hawk’s jump Fierce beating Bison’s crouch Forward. Now I know better.
I’m saying I’m usually wrong. I really am, usually wrong. lulz.
[media=youtube]3cfb4HISbMg[/media]
It looks like Guile is one of Hawk’s worst match-ups. Can you please provide advice for it?