you mean that guile has a really hard time against hawk right? thats what your trying to say right? you need help against hawk when you use guile right? because hawk has a really easy time against guile. especially offline, you can jump sonic booms on reaction.
Guile is not helpless against Hawk, but if you’re Guile and you get knocked down close to the corner, it’s pretty much over. At mid-screen though, Guile has a lot of tools and tricks to fuck up Hawk royally. Jumping Sonic Booms on reaction? You will eat a crouch Fierce that can trade with Hawk’s jump Jab, and Condor Dive can be blocked and/or beat by jump RH or stand Jab. And Guile is not like Chun Li who can get trapped by repeated jumping splashes, Guile’s crouch Fierce will trade with the splash if done in anticipation. And don’t forget Guile’s crouch Forward, if Hawk doesn’t jump, and Guile doesn’t spam it too much, this normal attack can be hell for Hawk. Oh sure Hawk’s sweep will beat/trade with crouch Forward, but if the Guile player uses it wisely, Hawk is never getting in.
LOL, no! It is as blitzfu said. Yeah, my Guile needs help against Hawk, but my Guile sucks even more than my Ryu and O.Ken. My Guile loses to Gief. I mean Hawk against good Guiles.
I say Hawk has trouble against Guile based on this:
[media=youtube]7E25dPXwNqM[/media]
My Guile plays nothing like that. That’s what I do:
even if I have a down charge, I will stand up and block a jump in;
3-hit combos from aerial attacks are a legend. I land a jump in and go for the throw, or mess -up and do a single aerial attack, and then a 2-hit combo;
cr.Fierce trade loses cleanly;
cr.Fwd is mistimed.
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What specific questions did you have about this match up?
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I can post 30 mins worth of videos of Diago and say that ryu is the best player in the game and has no bad match ups. Muteki vids don’t count because no one plays like him.
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I want the advice to include in the Wiki, to help new players. It means possible moves/actions at the beggining of the round, different things to worry about at different distances, pokes that are safe against Guile’s pokes, the ticks to he used against Guile when there is not enough time to safe jump, safe jump clues (like I had included for Ryu vs Claw), approach by “bulldogging” or aerial/dives, that sort of thing.
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But he says Chun is the better character, so you would be wrong again!
2.5. Muteki counts, and he is facing Toutanki. Only Mayakon was clearly better, and I found no videos of him vs Guile, but this one in AE.
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cr mk stuffs guiles cr mk. do that a lot. then jump over booms on reaction, loop ftw. if guile stops poking with cr mk, walk up and 360. if guile stands up to counter poke hawks cr mk with back mk, jump on him with jab and loop him ftw. this is the real strategy. offline, you have to play like this. because online, you can’t jump over booms on reaction. the input lag will mess you up.
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the online strategy. you can’t jump booms on reaction, but online, guile can’t blade kick your dives on reaction. neutral jump and push fierce a lot. this will bait out a blade kick, walk up and roundhouse grab for elbow bash, then safe jump loop ftw. if guile stops falling for the bait blade kick, then just dive on him for chip damage. this only works online, don’t try this offline. it won’t work. you will get the shit blade kicked out of you.
if you ever dive on guile, dive low. high hawk dives can be punished.
***note: always go for elbow bash throw when you get the chance. its super high damage because of the free safe jump you get after they shake out of the bash. unless you are in the corner.
Thanks, man. The idea is to include offline stuff, only. As I can often react to his dives when the lag is not high and as I have seen Mars react to dives by either standing and jabbing (I wonder if that is not why they mix up low and high dives) or Flash Kicks, I guess it is quite feasible to react to dives even online. Anyway, I think relying on lag will only cause frustration when people play the real thing.
After playing a long set with old school, I think its pretty apparent that hawk is a pretty bad match for ryu. We played 33 games, and he only won 1 game.
P.S. ryu’s name is pronounced Raul. Go Team Mexico!
As it was laggy as hell, and knowing Papercut is always wrong, I consider it has been proven that Ryu wins.
It makes you wonder, what has changed in this matchup in the last 5 years to make Hawk so difficult for Ryu?
Where before it was considered the other way around, that Ryu was a tough match for Hawk. Obviously the characters haven’t changed, but the level of Hawk players (both in Japan and the US) has shot through the roof in recent years. They’ve gotten really good!
The Sako technique primarily (which makes 360 motions a little easier to do), but also the creative uses of the Condor Dive (using it in footsie battles and against Hadokens) has changed this match IMO. There are a lot of other factors, but these two tactics mainly have changed things in my mind.
I’m still struggling with this matchup, but I have confidence that Ryu players will level up and find ways to make Hawk a little easier to deal with.
I don’t find this TOO bad of a match. I’d say its slightly in Hawk’s favor, but it’s definitely not a free win. As long as Ryu can effectively utilize good standing and crouching pokes to keep him at bay…and stop his jump in jabs and dives…he has a good chance of winning the match.
The Sako technique is definitely what gives Hawk the win. All he needs is one knockdown and it’s all over. Good hawks won’t be in range to get knocked down by DPs, his safe jump installs beats out Ryu’s DP, and if Ryu does a tatsu to escape, cr.medium? beats it clean and puts him in a good position to land another typhoon.
Nothing changed except for how the west views the matchup. Japan always considered Hawk a top tier character.
I don’t think Ryu loses, at all. Ryu can react to pretty much anything Hawk does. Hawk can only dive until he reaches the apex of his jump, so with some training you can actually know if you should counter jump-ins from a distance with sweeps or SRKs. If you get closer, it just does not matter: do a SRK and it will beat anything Hawk tries 95% of the time. Hell: st.Short will beat almost anything Hawk tries in the air. With that, Hawk is forced to stay on the ground, where he will have to deal with Ryu’s crouching kicks, standing strong and red Hadoukens. It is not hard for Ryu to safe-jump Hawk, and if Ryu goes for the cross-up, he can end the round the same way Hawk can by confirming a SRK if the combo hits or linking cr.RH XX Hadouken if it does not.
The “Sako tick” is very strong, but against players who are good with their reversals it gets really hard to keep it going. Specially the ones who are good with 1-button reversals, for Short Tatsumaki and Jab SRK, when appropriate. This forces Hawk to often use normals to reset the situation, which do little damage and allow Ryu to build super if he hasn’t already. With super, Ryu can either escape the loop by forcing Hawk to block the move or by simply having it, which will often make Hawk give you some room as an attempt to bait your move.
Ryu can lose a lot of match-ups by blocking a jump-in he could counter, this is just yet another one. Offline, odds are Hawk will not be able to touch Ryu for two rounds before he can get his super.
LuLz, everything you say is wrong. ahaha. The best way to play against hawk is to do ambiguous jump tatsu’s and mix up with a combo for the dizzy. Ryu’s that play like that give me the hardest time. And I usually don’t have hard times against ryu players. Especially if the ryu player zones. One dive can lead to sako ticks for the win. oldschool_br should know, I sako looped him for like an hour straight. lulz.
Sorry but, oldschool_BR is correct, ambiguous jump tatsu’s and x-ups/combo’s don’t work against top Hawk players like Damdai. I know that first hand. Even Damdai himself told me that well grounded Ryu’s have and should beat his Hawk. Ryu’s super is an amazing resource and burning it at the right time does get him out of hawks loops and will save his ass. I know my personal Ryu play style doesn’t mesh well against Hawk and I need to force myself not to be so aggressive. Ryu does win this match he plays correctly as Hawk has no good way of getting in. I believe the current match-up chart has it as 6-4 for RYU and that sounds correct to me.
I trust Damdai’s opinion, when he tell’s me Ryu wins this I believe him.
Someone should have told oldschool_br. When I played him, he went into the loop, got comfortable and just decided never to come back out. :clapdos:
If Ryu gets caught in the 360/dp loop without super and T.Hawk has perfect execution, Ryu is 100% dead, no escape possible. Doesn’t matter how good your Ryu is. Ryu just needs to keep Hawk at bay and hold onto the super. Top Hawks have some funny tricks to sneak in but once a good Ryu downloads it, Ryu should have the upper hand.
I think at the highest level (which I’m nowhere near) it’s 6-4 ryus favor.what’s your opinion on the dj hawk matchup?
Agreed. The ryu player must have done something wrong to get on that position in the first place. If ryu player is sharp and on point he can react to a lot of the jump ins and dives with hawk.
Currently, this match up is a complete mystery for me. I can’t think of any solid strategy to get past DJ’s zoning. The max out recovers too fast to try to reaction dive it. Once you do get it, the machine gun punch screws up any loop options. You can’t cross him up or meaty tick DJ if he has good reversal on wake up with MGP. It’s looking really hard. Like 7 - 3 DJ’s favor.