T. Hawk Thread.

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
241

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[media=youtube]Js_gg7q-47Y[/media]

[05/12/2010 04:31:54 p.m.] djfrijoles: what time is it in japan ?
[05/12/2010 04:32:04 p.m.] u: 7:30 am
[05/12/2010 04:32:05 p.m.] djfrijoles: it is 4:31 in the afternoon here in mexico
[05/12/2010 04:32:10 p.m.] djfrijoles: haha wow
[05/12/2010 04:32:33 p.m.] djfrijoles: we need explanation on how to execute
[05/12/2010 04:32:48 p.m.] djfrijoles: people want to learn to use sako jab typhoon
[05/12/2010 04:33:08 p.m.] u: it is really difficult
[05/12/2010 04:33:23 p.m.] djfrijoles: yes everyone is having a dificult time doing it
[05/12/2010 04:33:27 p.m.] u: it took 1 year to master
[05/12/2010 04:33:31 p.m.] djfrijoles: do you know what tips means ?
[05/12/2010 04:33:41 p.m.] djfrijoles: tips
[05/12/2010 04:33:44 p.m.] u: no
[05/12/2010 04:33:48 p.m.] u: i dont know
[05/12/2010 04:33:49 p.m.] djfrijoles: it means
[05/12/2010 04:33:55 p.m.] djfrijoles: giving help
[05/12/2010 04:34:00 p.m.] djfrijoles: like i say
[05/12/2010 04:34:02 p.m.] u: ok
[05/12/2010 04:34:02 p.m.] u: i got
[05/12/2010 04:34:13 p.m.] djfrijoles: concentrate on slow rotation
[05/12/2010 04:34:17 p.m.] djfrijoles: to execute
[05/12/2010 04:34:22 p.m.] djfrijoles: that is a tip
[05/12/2010 04:34:32 p.m.] u: yes
[05/12/2010 04:34:35 p.m.] djfrijoles: or if i say}
[05/12/2010 04:34:46 p.m.] djfrijoles: release punches not right away
[05/12/2010 04:34:55 p.m.] djfrijoles: those are tips for execution
[05/12/2010 04:35:03 p.m.] u: most important is timing to release the buttons
[05/12/2010 04:35:16 p.m.] djfrijoles: ok
[05/12/2010 04:35:19 p.m.] djfrijoles: i have a question
[05/12/2010 04:35:34 p.m.] u: should release the buttons quickly
[05/12/2010 04:35:48 p.m.] djfrijoles: is the timing diffrent for diffrent charaxcters or/also diffrent for far away/close jab/typoon
[05/12/2010 04:36:06 p.m.] u: distance you can walk is shorter than you think
[05/12/2010 04:36:08 p.m.] djfrijoles: it feels like sometimes timing is diffrent
[05/12/2010 04:36:18 p.m.] u: yes
[05/12/2010 04:36:26 p.m.] djfrijoles: I thoughgt so
[05/12/2010 04:36:34 p.m.] djfrijoles: far away is fast release short walk ?
[05/12/2010 04:36:45 p.m.] u: i practiced it for 3 years
[05/12/2010 04:36:58 p.m.] djfrijoles: I practiced only 3 months =(
[05/12/2010 04:37:01 p.m.] u: short walking is really important
[05/12/2010 04:37:06 p.m.] u: not much lol
[05/12/2010 04:37:10 p.m.] djfrijoles: lol
[05/12/2010 04:37:11 p.m.] u: ok
[05/12/2010 04:37:15 p.m.] u: i will go work
[05/12/2010 04:37:19 p.m.] u: see ya !
[05/12/2010 04:37:19 p.m.] djfrijoles: Im learning a little
[05/12/2010 04:37:21 p.m.] djfrijoles: bye
[05/12/2010 04:37:28 p.m.] u: later

Hopefully a new vid on how to execute will be up soon. This one might be usefull on how far of a walk can be achieved and if someone could translate we might be able to pick up on tips. I have a couple friends I’m gonna ask for help on translating. If I find anything out I’ll post here since we can finaly get back on topic.

@Pablo

I forgot to ask him about his spring but I’ll ask for you soon. When are you finnaly gonna get on GGPO ? Hit me via PM so as we don’t start another train wreck here.

242

And you say this is legit? You can clearly see that Hawk gouges Blanka’s eyes! That illegal anywhere!

Great video, dude! Thanks a lot to you and neoray!

243

Look it comes down to these statements about Hawk and his trap…

The fact that it takes 1 - 3 years to master any of the said techniques to play Hawk means they are difficult to use proficiently. I don’t see a problem with that. In 99.9999% of the matches that take place in the USA and its accompanying ST support system, GGPO, CPS, and even HDR classic you are not going to run into that kind of Hawk anyway. Less Damdai, if he’s really going taking the time to learn it.

Moreover, if you come across a player who can actually play T.Hawk that way in a real game, they?ve already played grip of highly focused, high level ST and are going to be a great ST player with solid fundamentals anyway. I’d bet more than likely they?d be very competitive and could still win even without the loop.

Even in Japan, even though it is not unheard of, you RARELY see a Hawk place in top 3. Sure you have X7 with the two man Hawk team getting 3rd in a 3 man tourney. But that was an outlier. Overall seeing Hawk?s performance in Japan over the years I have been following ST tells me 3 things:

(1) Even with the loop Hawk has a tough time winning.
(2) The loop is STILL damn hard even with years of practice.
(3) Hawk still is NOT a top tier character.

If a player wants to practice for 1-3 years with a character and is still ?just? barely competitive on the highest levels of gameplay in japan, let them. It great the game has some to offer that type fo player.

244

Actually, there are many instances of Hawks getting to top 3 (and one 1st place even). But yeah O.Hawk at most is low mid tier and N.Hawk low tier (though his ranking, just as Bison’s, is tricky because he can destroy you from any error.

People worried about “fairness” and hard execution should not be playing SF2. You can always play your easy to execute, balanced to absolute boredom SSFIV for that. There’s nothing wrong with expert-mode characters, and if you are getting looped by Hawk it means he outplayed you and you should get better at zoning/keepaway.

BTW, thanks for the excellent info, Neoray and Frijoles. I always wanted to play Hawk but since I didn’t know how to properly execute his most powerful tactics, I never really mained him. Now I can do most of the stuff posted here pretty consistently (except walking 720, shit’s very hard in a pad, the stick method doesn’t translate well at all to pad) thanks to your vids.

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I think Hawk is a strong character. But execution doesn’t take place on paper.

[media=youtube]Df0niLgnYxo&t=16m41s[/media]

See how easily T.Hawk beats Chun here because of the loop which is executed perfectly? So devoid of strategy.

I think I could win an HDR tourney if we continue to play HDR via online 10 page essay writing. (lol HDR sucks)

246

I think hawk lost bro.

247

I think that’s either the best counter troll or you need to re-read the whole post.

248

best counter troll.

249

Imma need a band aid.

250

don’t forget the neosporin. it’ll heal faster with it.

251

Nothing will HEAL THESE SCAAAARS.

252

Hey guys, dunno if this’ll ever be helpful in any way, but I found this kinda fun way to do super off of one (cr.)jab.
Just do the (cr.)jab, 360 from db to up to db again, then go back up again and piano the punches. Super unsafe, but kinda of a fun way to do it, with just a 540.

EDIT: Ohhhhhh, now I understand how that whiff cr.short setup works!

253

i was always “whatever” when it came to ST vs hdr. i played hdr more because it was and still is more accessible for me (ggpo is a pain in the ass imo). on the other hand i usually watched ST vids (thanks nohoho for the best website). i always wondered why guys like vff was always irritated by hdr and/or its players when overall the two didn’t seem that much different. it wasn’t like sf2 versus sf4 but guys like him always made it out to be that way. it was entertaining that he was so abrasive and knowledgeable at the same time but i never could understand why so much hate when it came to hdr.

last night i saw those neoray vids for the first time. those vids are absolute sickness. i don’t want to take up too much t-hawk space, but i gotta hand it to ST players (t-hawk players especially) for what can be accomplished in this game in terms of execution.

i can see why a lot of ST players hate hdr so much. the chicken wing, the whoreligan, and 360’s probably should have stayed as they were (in terms of input). when using certain moves there should be a penalty for not fully committing to the move. in these cases, you end up jumping and leaving yourself open to punishment. in the case of the TAP, why shouldn’t something that does so much damage be difficult to manage while still maintaining pressure with other moves?

i could go on but it wouldn’t cover anything that hasn’t been covered and definitely wouldn’t add anything to this thread. again neoray, thanks for the great vids. these vids should be on the front page and i’m actually surprised they haven’t been posted yet.

254

Señor djfrijoles muy amigo del arroz, i have a question.

With Gief/Hawk sometimes and i mean sometimes i do crouching jab, c.jab into spd… but i can’t do it all the time, i have good timing for reversal spd and even reversal super but i’m not consistent enough to jab jab into spd… what’s the secret?, can you explain me the inputs and timing please?.

i’m consistent doing this: standing jab, standing or crouching short into spd, so what’s the difference between this and jab jab into spd? :S

Muchas gracias don frijoles de jesus.

255

Sounds like a mental block. Try this. DONT SPIN untill AFTER you have COMPLETLY RELEASED the second jab button. After your finger has completly come off the button, THEN spin. For now, dont use negetive edge. Piano all your punches. Once you have down the timing for the spin you can switch to negetive edge. Let me know if it helps.

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Jumping isn’t a penalty for not fully committing to a move. That makes absolutely no sense. Jumping is a penalty for an execution error.

HDR lets you be more non-commital about inputs because of the increased input window. You can buffer all of the input except the last and then input the last direction+button later. This has nothing to do with whether or not up is part of the motion. The only exception that matters is t.hawk’s super, but he probably needs that buff since his spds got nerfed.

ST chicken wing input is just stupidly broken and unnecessarily difficult to execute because of a bug. Even the best fei long players occasionally get an unwanted command. LK chicken wing is fine and you have a 3f window to input lk kicks from the first frame of :uf:. MK/HK chicken wing has a bug where if you input on the first frame of :uf:, you will instead get the command normal for overhead/stepkick. This means you have a 2f input window after where you must not input a kick on the first frame. This is much harder than a 2f input window.

257

as i said it on ggpo: thanks bro… it works

258

Just added the following to the wiki. This is a textual description of neoray’s video demonstration.

Please correct me if this is not accurate or you want to add more.

Standing Negative Edge Typhoons / Walking Negative Edge Typhoons / Sako Special

This is called the Sako special by the japanese T-Hawk players.

Do a standing jab, and piano strong, fierce, holding all 3 punches.

Wait until the jab recovery frame is almost gone, do ↑←↓→, while holding →, hawk will step forward for a little bit.

Release fierce/strong/jab when opponent is out of block string.

Move joystick back to :arrow_lower_left: to block, in case opponent reversal.

The most important part in this trick is to do the ↑ as late as possible while you’re still in jab recovery frame (so you dont jump). If you do it too early, you cannot walk because you have to complete the 360 + punch release in 8~15 frames (varies).

Begin practicing without walking, gradually adjust your timing to spin as late as possible while keeping your execution clean.

For characters that don’t have a good reversal (like chunli, dictator, sim), you dont have to tick him from max range of the standing jab to be safe, thus you dont have to walk.

But for shoto, their jab shoryuken will beat t-hawk’s standing jab if you are too close. Thus you have to tick from max range of st. jab and use walking 360 to get close and lift him up in the air.

Use the hitbox with throw box training mode. If you see your yellow box but no typhoon, you do the 360 too fast (thus opponent is not out of block string yet).

If you walk and dont see your yellow box, you spin too early (360 not completed in 8~15 frames).

If you don’t see your yellow box and your didn’t walk at all, you failed your 360 execution.

Alternatively, if you are having a hard time to do this, you can practice this using super street fighter IV training mode.

The input window is much larger in sf4. You can do the neg edge walking 360 in your first try :smiley:

259

I just want to add something here. You’ve listed throw happy characters. The problem/importance here is that you have to be spot on with your ticks. Dict jumps out really easy if your ticks aren’t tight and it just so happens to be one of Hawks bad match ups. Chun = grab. Sim= grab+bad matchup + you also need spot on execution for anywhere on the screen loop from a knock down.

Dict you have to walk up really close before you throw out your jab after a landed Typhoon. Chun you are supposedto be max range so up kick whiffs

So for Sim you HAVE to be max range because first, thats as close as you are going to get from a landed Typhoon and second, he gets up really quick and has that throw range wich you HAVE to respect. Thirdpoopasi is gay and likes his shitpushedin

These 3 characters can be looped from anywhere on the screen from oneknock down using the Sako Special only if you have spacing and execution.

260

Listen to Frijoles, he is actually good with hawk. Remember, Papasi is the most vocal “not good” player in the scene. Even though he talks about advanced techniques, he has no idea about the practical uses or even what he is talking about.