Hmm, CD already beats or trades (Hawk’s favor) with Guile’s U2 if spaced right.
People are going to figure out ways to screw with Hawk’s EX dive eventually, fireball FADC and jump back etc…make you waste meter and fall flat on your face like Hawk does now.
Interesting thought, but you really think people will want to bait that EX Dive, waste 2 bars and give up inside positioning to Hawk? I sure as hell don’t.
my thought on the buffs hawk’s getting.
cl st hk never used it but trying to use it more so maybe a good buff.
far st hk is still shit if you look at his hurtbox. why? since you don’t have to block that attack just crounch and it will wiff and al you do is a sweep or a cr what ever kick will hurt hawk as hell since you don’t need to hit hawk to confirm the hit just sweep air and he falls. and it happens to me all the time. as long as they don’t change the hurtbox it is still crap.
neutral jumping hk has more active frames is a good buff is you use it since i never use this move it is crap to me because a rather use hp if i neutral jump ( or i should try this out and see what it does ).
ex condor dive will be the best buff he get if this move really fast like other charakters ex moves ( hakan slides ) otherwise waist of time since fireball spammers wil lp you or worse if you dive in like all normal dives.
lp condor spire hitbox buff will be nice if it also has faster recover frames so you can still punish.
seriously i never use this move in combo or what since i always get punished after i"m in recover frames.
condor spire beter meter gain is a solid buff.
beter super range? i thought the range was fine since it is still 2x cr lp and then you can grap, this doesn’t change it in 3x cr lp and super so why bother with it.
ultra 2 going faster is good but i thought it must get some better hitbox since you can only grap in jumping opponent with this buff you can grab some idiot who jumps neutral if close other wise it is still crap.
and who jumps so much in this game??? never see daigo jump too much or other top players so why would they do it now and especialy if they see you got ultra2 meter full.
i think hawk should get some smaller hurtboxes especialy far st hk.
condor spire really needs to be done with kick button. have guys never had this: walking forwards to you’re opponent and you see them wanna do a fireball and you think now i’ll punish you with ex condor spire and ex tomahawk comes out? wtf!!! and then get a massive punish because that crap move comes out.
tomahawk really needs invulnibility frames at start up since it’s not a solid anti air move.
he needs beter anti air moves since trust peak is crap as hell and cr hp will trade most of the time.
what happened to his overhead move that is in super turbo? forward or backward with lp?
and i think his jump forwards needs more frames.
also he needs to fadc possibilities in his specials to presure more.
and his walking speed, dashes and focus attack really needs buffs. he’s walking slower then zangief does less damage and no normals to move in like zangief has.
looking overall at the buffs and nerfs other charakters gets i think hawk is still a crap charakter.
i just don’t do fireballs against him if he has meters and jump neutral jump him to death since his air moves are crap as hell.
honda just need to do neutral jump hp all day and your a dead hawk. ryu can do it with j. mk and everybody will find something to it with other charakters.
oh are you close enough that you wanna do a far st hk then i’ll just crounch and sweep air since it will hit you and you won’t hit me.
i’m reading that zangief is also getting a hp buff by 50 so it will be 1150hp, will hawk also get this???
zangief gets his lp spd range buff and hawk don’t
zangiefs lp and hp spd even get damage buffs and hawks lp spd only does 150 damage and giefs already doing 170 so it will go to 180 or even more and hp spd does 230 and this will go to 240 maybe 250 damage.
as a grapler player i’m looking at hakan now and maybe i’ll pick up zangief.
i’m also looking at dee jay and fei long since fei long is already a very good character and dhalsim getting more combo’s is also looking juicy accept the damage nerfs on his super.
sim is already the most irritating character in the game.
ofcourse i’ll try out hawk in AE version but if i don’t like it i’m dropping him for good unless i see him win tournaments wich is never gonna happen with these crap buffs that most of the moves no one uses.
sim and guile will still be hawk’s worst nightmare.
just my thought
oh yeah i think you guys all knows that ono lost to a zangief player on vannila street fighter 4 so he nerfs zangief so much so nobody uses him anymore?
ono don’t like graplers so he’s nerfing all graplers so they will never win tournaments.
so why should we bother with charakters the god of sf don’t like???
he is the god of sf since he can do everything with it as he see fit.
we can just complain or never play the game again.
if we never play it again then he still got the money he wanted so he won’t bother with that.
just don’t buy it is more the thing to do, hahaha
FUCK HAWK!!!
If you’re playing him just because someone ELSE can win with him, you need to just quit SF completely.
the way i see it is by then i can learn from that guy who can win with him.
i’ll try out the most of the things myself.
and i was thinking of quiting it because the game is tooooo defensive, i like attacking.
maybe that’s the reason i play him because he has to get in and then he’s dangerous.
i don’t play defensive myself.
maybe i must go turtle power or just switch to tekken.
i see tekken players slamming like crazy.
as it is, darth, i don’t believe you actually have a solid grasp of t.hawk as a character in the ssf4 engine, nor have you actually read through the forum thoroughly (not really your fault, the hawk forum is filled with lots of bloat but it’s gotten better again) and i would stop here because this would be verging into off-topic areas but I wouldn’t want your comments to do a disservice to new players looking to try out hawk in AE.
Just to clarify some things: if you think gief has better normals than hawk you have been mislead. if you like gief’s normals better simply because a few of them move him forward you should play gief. hawk’s normals serve a different purpose. you state that you don’t like to play defensively and, at any level above pure mashing, ssf4 is ALL about defense (I share this gripe with you). furthermore, cr.hp is actually quite good, thrust peak is really only for specific situations, and it sounds like you may not be making use of cl.st.mp as the majorly awesome AA that it is. as far as tomahawk goes for AA, you cannot attempt to use it like a shoryuken and you must do it at different times. there is information about these things in the forum.
back on topic: i’ve been thinking more about hawk’s changes and it seems to me that the best buffs for hawk are actually the alterations to other characters. not excited about U2 but I will reserve judgment until I see it in action. lp spire is sounding better to me as well.
Nice setup as I wanted to talk changes to other characters and how this may impact Hawk. People are also not factoring in that Hawk is hard to tweak because he could become too good with the wrong changes and the fact Capcom have clearly gone for trying to make characters better at what they do rather than addressing match up issues alone.
Here are my thoughts on what nerfs will help:
Blanka ball and Ex up ball - he won’t be able to spam ball anymore as the chip won’t be worth it. He also will have a harder time escaping from the corner. He will have to use ex to hit from a far and be safe and will at some point need to come to you to hurt you significantly. These changes make a big difference to this match and I think blanka will still have and edge but he has to risk coming into hawks world to bring the hurt.
Ryu c.mk hotbox reduced and tatsu escape made harder: ryu will need to get closer to use that c.mk and hawks s.mk will be even more effective. Ryu not being able to run away freely will also give hawk some added opportunity to pressure.
Bison c.lk nerf, scissor pushback increased, s.hk nerf: s.hk first; still will be slammed but the damage at max range will mean you hang around longer and makes fadc ing them to typhoon more worth the risk. Scissor pushback means he cannot pressure as freely. Footsy fights will become more even IMO.
Honda general damage reduction, headbutt damage down from distance: plain and simple as you will hang around much longer in a fight. Speculation, but if U2 grab box, invincibility and start up are all buffed we may have a counter to slammed headbutt anyway.
Seth nj.hp gone: needs no explaining but closing space will be much more practical now. Taking that move out alone makes it more like 6-4 Seth now.
Rufus ex messiah damage nerf and u2 made worse for aa: messiah is a pain when you want pressure so taking less damage is a pluss for hp happy hawks. His U2 nerf being that it king juggles for less damage also helps given hawks fondness of the airways.
Rose U2 invincibilty gone and reduced meter build: no longer do we need to feat going for a mix up when she has it and she won’t now have super after half a dozen fireballs. Hawk will be able to pressure much more.
Cammy reduced pushback on blocked dp: so instead of just s,hk punishes we should be able bring hurt or for Spd with mix ups to follow. More options are ether for sure.
So…outside of sim, guile, chun akuma (that ex dive will be useful for), sagat and then maybe juri and gouken, who is there for hawk players to look at think “oh my god the odds are really against me”? 6 maybe 7 characters as bad matches out of 35+ candidates is step in the right direction for sure. That is not withstanding sims damage nerfs, guilds damage and meter build reduction and hawks ex dive helping vs gouken, juri and even high tigers. Not saying it’s all golden because it is not, but he will have less issues with these changes and his buffs.
By the way anyone looked to see what benefit close hk might give? I spent 30 mins last night trying to figure potential stuff out but nothing so fat that makes me want use it aside from a tick to ultra as it leaves at max range and neutral on block?
Double Post Deleted.
In regards to Sim…haven’t read the entire thread since maybe yesterday, so I don’t know if this was brought up yet…but depending on how much bigger spire’s hitbox got, it could help vs Sim’s limbs if I’m not mistaken.
nice analise tamanapants.
now we need to try out against those in the bottom tier who got massive buffs.
i still see guile and sim a pain in the ass but every charakters has his/ her bad matchups.
it just won’t be so bad as it was before and maybe hawk will have lots of 5-5 and 6-4 4-6 now instead of 3-7.
Hawk’s normals alone make him ‘favored’ for the Gief matchup. You should be able to beat gief JUST using normals.
DarthPaul: I generally don’t buy tier lists because 1) YOU(me included) aren’t a top player, and 2) YOU are most likely NOT facing a top player. I’ve beaten 3 B ranked Blanka’s this past month and it was clearly because they weren’t familiar with the matchup, not because I played my ass off or because they were scrubs.
About the Juri matchup Tamana: It is already in Hawk’s favor. Her fireball sucks ass and anything she does you can typhoon. She needs to pressure you to do damage, and she can’t pressure you cause you can ex typhoon through pressure. Ex dive will just make it that much easier.
I’m pretty annoyed at no spire input change. But I’m cautiously optimistic about other characters nerfs helping T.Hawk out, so I’m just going to wait and see.
Right now though, I’m playing Sagat and Guy seriously and I only bust out Hawk for the lulz. So if Hawk sucks in AE I have those two to fall back on. Guess I need to pick one now and hit the lab, or lose mad amounts of cash at the local arcade 
Man I’m glad you find her easy… because I find her impossible. I fought a couple last night and could not get in whatsoever. I think your underrating her fireball, by a lot.
Her FB doesn’t go full screen, so you have to make her come to you. When that happens, destroy her. Spire goes over the low FB, EX Spire goes through the mid FB. Don’t jump at her from distance. Any blocked pinwheel kick will grant you an SPD. Bait the dive kick, SPD or FP or RH to do damage. Once you get in, just keep on her and don’t let her get away. You will have to block a lot and bait out a bunch of crap though.
^^^ This!
[quote=“komradekraig, post:146, topic:106272”]
as it is, darth, i don’t believe you actually have a solid grasp of t.hawk as a character in the ssf4 engine, nor have you actually read through the forum thoroughly (not really your fault, the hawk forum is filled with lots of bloat but it’s gotten better again) and i would stop here because this would be verging into off-topic areas but I wouldn’t want your comments to do a disservice to new players looking to try out hawk in AE.
yo dude, i’ve played with hawk again today and went turtle mode.
by doing so i wacked a b ranked honda and second round was almost a perfect.
and honda is a very bad matchup for hawk.
sent a b ranked cammy to hell with also one round almost a perfect.
i still got my far st hk punished if it wiffs, sometimes also on block.
got some wins against a friend sagat and totally destroyed his ryu.
he mains sagat so ofcourse he wins more.
but also very close matches.
and all round he’s a far better player than me.
now i want more candy.
i think i’m beginning to see the light.
turtle power!
[quote=“darthpaulx”]
Here’s the thing you might be missing. You’re bringing a ton of pressure just by being close. You don’t have to even do anything but stand still and people fear grapplers. You don’t have to throw out special moves, you don’t have to land grabs. Just move forward.
Read this if you haven’t already:
thnx man
never seen that one before.
lmao last night I was fighting this Ken… he tried an EX Tatsu - > Ultra 1 but I blocked it. Were both down to a pixel… When he landed I taunted and went for a cl st HK… whiffed! He then finished me and I received a ‘nice’ message after the game. fml