FP and FK can not be canceled. I thought I remembered trying SRK and it didn’t work.
I spent another 1-2 hours of actual playtime with AE today, played about 15 matches against Hugo101’s Yun and about 10 matches against XBlades’s Fei. XBlades was on a massive winning streak, he had over 50 wins against 6 of us. Fei is STILL a difficult match.
You cannot cancel EX SRK into KKK dive, you have to use PPP.
Yun is beatable, but him getting a combo string started is really dangerous. I’ve found a couple things, wish there was more, can’t remember now.
-Cr. FP works well enough (so far) to either beat or trade with their dive kicks at their max range. RandomUltraDavid mentioned above that cl st .MP does the same at a closer distance.
-Sweep and cr. MK beat dash punch (including EX) pretty consistently. It seems this is universal with all other characters vs Yun. I got Yun’s dash punch with U2, but that was on a random mash guess.
-They are safe from 360 after EX dash, maybe even regular. I got nailed twice with with EX dash (insert my LP 360) > EX upkick which ended my fights vs Hugo101.
I suspect that either the dev blog change list for the super range was translated wrong or there was some unmentioned change to his ultra range as well as the super range. I think U1 was also extended to 1.5. Twice today I landed U1 from a range that did not seem possible before. People watching were asking me if the range was buffed but I said from what I knew it was only his super. I acknowledge that trying to detect the difference between 1.466 and 1.5 is sort of ridiculous without a system to prove it. Who knows, maybe the characters I landed it on had their hitboxes adjusted…hard to say.
Dwiguitar mentioned a few posts back that his ranges for super and ultra respectively were 1.35 and 1.4. I took the frame data from that torrent and stepped through each frame and got the exact numbers which are actually 1.386 and 1.466. I took a screenshot linked below.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/277/svuh.jpg
It would make sense that both U1 and super should be the same right?
Let’s hope so!
Also before I forget- that EX dive block foot hit trick thing leaves you negative. I spammed U1 right after I landed it and my test person was able to jump. How many frames is jump? Or are the frames irrelevant and jump has it’s own deal?
Your opponent can always jump when coming out of hit or blockstun to avoid grabs.
EDIT: Also, this EX Dive recovery cancel thing, does it also work on hit? If so, you can probably juggle with EX Tomahawk in the corner. Like: “Lvl.3 FA xx backdash, Instant EX Dive, EX Tomahawk, EX Dive”. Would be nice.
I’d blow 2 bars if I could start a combo with massive damage of a F ST HP. The mix-up possibilities of that are enticing.
Has anyone heard or tried out if ex condor dive has a height restriction?
Note: Ignore this post. It’s been answered already.
Has anyone tried to see what jump back EX dive beats if you are fishing to bait out certain moves - I was thinking about how it could be very useful vs lots of moves:
Balrog headbutt and dash punches
Honda headbutt and butslam
Blanka ball and upp ball
DPs
Fuerte splash tortilla mix ups
Rose Soul throw
Adon Jag Tooth and Jag Kick
Fei Chicken wing
Bison head stomp, crusher and scissors
Rufus EX Messiah
T Hawk Tomahawk
I think it’s just projectile invincibility.
Should have explained myself more - I did not mean as an instant jump back dive sorry. Think about how many times you might have jumped back in Super to have your opponent do something to try and chase you or punish you and if you had a jump back dive you could have punished it. Dive for example murders headbutt for Honda once any invincible frames are gone, I’m sure it beats dash punches too as another example. How about the million and one times you might have jumped away to get better spacing and reset a match to find your opponent leaping after you. You would see these moves coming with more time as you are travelling away from the action. Not saying Hawk should be some jump back jack in the box, but with meter it opens up opportunities to punish anything if people are trying to chase a match and run hawk down. Come to think of it there are only 2 other characters I can think of that can hurt you going backwards without charge - Akuma and Juri. If you think about Akumas case, the amount of times you see jump back fireball hit is untrue as someone tries to get in. Hawk jumps so high and floaty he will rarely be below his opponent even if he jumps first, so with time I see this being a useful defensive option as well the already interesting attacking options.
Had quite a bit of time with the game today, tested some stuff out for Hawk. I don’t really feel like editing my notes so I’m just gonna copy/paste them verbatim, meaning watch out for laziness and rambling. Where there are question marks, I still need to do more investigating.
–Thawk
-----which air normals cancel to dive/ex dive
----------just jab for both still
-----height restriction on dive/ex dive
----------yep, can’t do either one immediately, reg dive height requirement seems same
-----ex dive recover on whiff faster than regular dive
----------yessir, not a ton faster though
-----spires any safer on block
----------doesn’t feel like it
-----any normals seem faster/safer
----------not noticeably
-----more range on close mp
----------no, didn?t notice any difference
----------still can?t get close mp again after crossup splash close mp close mp on the characters I tried (works on a couple characters in Super)
-----any buffs to close mk
----------seems same
-----any extra linkability
----------no on cr lk, seems same, couldn?t get it to link itself but still links to close lp
----------close hk seems same, links to far lp still but who cares, out of range for lp to combo into dragon punch or spire
----------close hp, maybe a bit faster, could be wrong, still links to far lp but again who cares because you can?t actually combo after the lp from that range
-----any more normals cancelable or fadc-able
----------nope
-----any changes to dp
----------all felt pretty much the same, ex nicely invincible, hp gets invincibility after startup still
-----u2 after focus crumple
----------nope, not even crumple, focus again, u2
-----u2 still invincible
----------yeah, beat every move/jump i tried it against
-----u2 better otherwise
----------nobody could safe jump me from the front, very fast recovery on whiff
----------didn?t test if beats crossups or if has better range?
-----still hittable between cr hk hits
----------yep
-----sweet spot for ex dive to land close
----------hard to find
----------maybe character specific for easiness, got it pretty easily against juri
-----rival is fuerte
Thanks for this. A little disappointed as I was hoping for more subtle change to play around with. Still, appreciate it very much.
Thanks for the write up. You don’t seem too enthused by what you found.
Aside from trying the ex dive close cancel glitch did you find any other good uses for it? Also, has anyone been able to land ex dive near the corner to see if you can ex spire while they are juggled? I know you can’t juggle twice in a combo but maybe you can folks something up in that situation?
Still baffled by buffing close s.hk. The only use I have found for it is after you land a splash on certain characters it whiffs completely but let’s you buffer ultra SPD to get them once they come out of hitstun - ryu for example. It’s gimmicky though. On block it leaves you at neutral and max range for lp or ex
Typhoon too.
I think it’s time to move on to another character. I’ve said it a few times before and I don’t want to do it, but like my avatar (lol) he didn’t get enough.
I’ve spent a couple hundred $ entering tournaments for the love of the character but it’s getting pointless.
When I get good enough with Seth he’ll probably be my new tournament character, but for now, Hawk is still #1.
BTW U2 is sounding SO sick.
Hawk seems the same… =/
Yeah, he seems mostly the same, but having only a few changes doesn’t mean he’s bad. Ex dive is a very important buff, it starts up faster, moves faster (ok, moves like ex dive in Super, as someone pointed out), can be done jumping backwards, goes through fireballs, can’t be punished as hard when blocked high, and ends up right in front of the opponent when blocked low. Even just 2-3 of those would have made the move good, but when all combined it’s really a great addition to Hawk’s game. Once we all figure out where and when we can make it land next to the opponent consistently, it’s gonna be pretty awesome. And the buff to u2 is really nice as well. People tried traditional safe jump setups on it, and I blew them all up. Like I said I’m not sure if its hitbox is wider or if it deals with crossups any better, but it definitely seems improved.
But I think a lot of Hawk’s buffs are more addition by subtraction. I understand them not wanting to buff Hawk too much, since if his character design was maxed out he’d probably be pretty ridiculous. Instead, they mostly helped him out by way of matchups. I think his character design deals well with lots of good characters, much like Daigo says Zangief’s does. Lots of his problem matchup characters were nerfed (Guile, Chun, Blanka, Honda, Sim), some characters he did ok against already were nerfed too (Boxer, Cammy, Rose, Ryu, Rufus, Seth), and from my very short and limited experience it seems like he’ll probably deal well with Yun and Yang too.
Don’t get too discouraged imo.
Agreed. I have always have had luck with Hawk. In ssf4 he has some limitations, however I think he has plenty of tools to win with. The Ex dive is exactly what he needed. A little ingenuity, creativity, and a grip of patience go a long way with Hawk. He’s a walking Tank.
I don’t think he’s a top character. He has to work hard to win every match. But he can win.
Punishing blanka ball on block
Anyone knows how to punish the blanka rolling attack on block. although nerfed seems like hawk still cant punish it
I think T.Hawk should have to be balanced in some ways:
Agree totally with the point of simplifying the Condor Spire input. However sometimes a kind of reverse hadouken with a back added to the end of the input works for me well.
Ability to combo into Mexican Typhoon and other grabs to give him a better variety with combos.
Reducing a bit the range of the LP Mexican Typhoon and in some situations like when a character is just in the end of a jump where the Mexican Typhoon can be applied eliminate that option, to avoid being to abusable with it.
Increase the range of the Condor Spire to give T.Hawk some tools against zoning characters to balance these match-ups.
Reduce damage of the Double Typhoon, as it’s nearly as damaging as a ultra, and instead as I said before making it better to combo into it.
A general increase of damage to the normals and some changes to frame data for some normals to have a better option of linking. I know this won’t be done but it would be awesome if they did it!
P.D: A whip to domesticate greenish-like mutated monkeys wouldn’t be bad!:wgrin:
this is not the thread for that kind of talk, nor is this the game engine to be talking about comboing into command grabs. furthermore, the suggestion thread, where your ideas should have gone, should be closed by now as well since AE is out. thanks for contributing though.
Oh, sorry then, as the people where commenting about some changes they wanted to see, I thought it was a kind of “what you wanted to have for T.Hawk in AE”. Again sorry for my post if that is not the case.