no setups after dp. spire never whiffs.
I’d argue that you really don’t get any set ups after EX-Spire, considering that you can backdash anything Hawk wants to do to you. Also, Hawk’s DP whiffing isn’t a problem if you hit training mode for a second to learn the ranges.
Another thing is that I see people advocating use of HP DP after HP SPD. I disagree with that. I prefer up-toward Dive. I consistently land 3 SPDs in a row because of a simple shenanigan:
After landing the first HP SPD, since no one in the world knows Hawk’s tricks, they’re not expecting you to dive in and bust out another one immediately on wake up. Next, you do the dive again and wait for the inevitable invincible reversal. There’s your third 360. This usually only works once per opponent, but I’ll be damned if I haven’t gotten it to work on just about every single person I’ve played online tonight.
HP TB gives the most meter and puts you back in range for LP SPD. That’s the reason for doing it after an HP SPD. Dive shenanigans will win you some matches on XBL I guess. But I dont recommend it as a rule. That being said, the occasional shenanigans can surprise the opponent, just don’t count on it to win matches on a regular basis against good players.
I know not to rely on the shenanigans, but Dive does get you much closer to the opponent than HP TB.
i will vouch for yflow to say that dive gimmicks work way more than they should on everybody. things that i land consistently online and offline:
HP typhoon, whiff condor dive, ultra 1
or if it’s early,
HP typhoon, whiff condor dive, EX typhoon, whiff cross up dive, jab typhoon, ambiguous cross up slash pressure, death
after it works once though, it never works again :sad:
I just gave you two in the previous post that I’ve used and have been using since the game came out. After ex spire try dash forward once and hold up forward and splash. Let me know if a character that isnt adon can backdash it.
Exactly.
I really need to level up my Hawk. I’m gonna post some vids up this week, would you guys mind critiquing them?
I’m not at a place where I can test it right now, but doesn’t that get you DP’d?
Not every character has a DP
I just tried that set up, and there are two huge problems with it:
If your opponent doesn’t tech the knock down, you just lost your pressure.
There is an incredible amount of time to simply dash under Hawk or even walk forward a little bit to avoid the splash altogether.
I feel like maybe we’re talking about two different things, because what I just tried in training seems unreasonably impractical.
(1) Just jump back over and c/u again.
(2) Empty Jump/OS/ Jump d+MP > Spinner stops that nonsense.
Honesty, the BEST mix-ups Hawk gets are off of his LP 360. Many of the other that come off of the Spires, ex spires, ex grabs, HP/MP grab, Sweep, throw, or dive will not be as good or as tight as the LP 360. Good players can find ways to wiggle out if you go for the same mix up over and over. But, you can still play the mental game beat them to the punch.
Try it once, if the player walks under it or back dashes, realize that the player have an understanding of how to avoid the approach and pressure and alter your approach next time.
- If the person likes to dash, take a gamble just hold UF (no dash) after the ExSpire. More than likely they dash forward not processing your change of approach and dash right in to another garb/ combo. I do it all the time.
Hawk HAS to make gambles. As much as we would love safe set up after safe set up, other than the LP , you’re going to have to get a little creative. It doesn’t take much.
In the first instance, you’re just talking about a blatant cross-up attempt now. Your opponent is now standing, and you’re likely to eat an anti-air.
In the second, I don’t think the opponent would hang around long enough to eat a 360. As far doing it without the dash goes, now you’re just talking about Splash pressure on wake up, which is another argument for saving the meter and just getting more damage with the DP in combos. It gives you the same set up.
^^^^ OK. I see now. I am not trying to flame or hate. But you’re that guy. You know the guy. The guy who’s just going to argue with everyone and try to disprove everything stated in the forum.
It seems looking back over the thread that from your point of view everybody else is wrong or misled. It?s too bad you?re so argumentative. If you weren?t you might actually learn something. (Grindman is one of the best Hawk players in the US) But it?s cool, no worries. I am not going to waste my time trying and argue the finer points of play here. Do what works for you. :clapdos:
Anyway, good luck with your Hawk bro. I am sure it?s S-rank! :tup:
He’s looking for the “T Hawk vortex” apparently. Sorry guy it doest exist. Setup does not mean tricky mixup. Setup for a crossup is a setup. You want mixups and vortex go play akuma or fuerte or ibuki or Abel. Thawk is straight forward for the most part. Sorry to dissapoint.
[media=youtube]a-HGoXA99nY[/media]
first round. 0.53 seconds in. i hit that combo splash, jab, cl.mp ex spire. what did i do after?
oh right. what happened the second round? right. this setup can get you DP’d if theyre mash happy. get respect and make sure they know if theyre gonna dp every time, they’ll get punished.
I saw EX-Spire -> Dash -> Spire in that video, and it looks legit, but that’s not what I was talking about.
My issue lies with EX-Spire -> Dash -> Splash. It just doesn’t sound like a good set up to me.
I’m being so argumentative here in the hopes that we might all learn something. Are you suggesting that I shouldn’t raise objections because the person I disagree with is a good player?
As far as you not wasting your time arguing the finer points of play, isn’t that what we’re here for?
Hey gridman, something I noticed about this vid. Why did you go for the shoto safe jump against Abel? Abel doesn’t have a good wakeup counter move. Wouldn’t it be better if you’d have just went with a deep splash o-s spd?
Been a while since I posted anything on here…mainly because SF had to take a back seat to the day to day for a bit. Anyway something for people to stew on and hopefully test:
LP SPD, whiff s.lp, neutral jump dive (at the very peak) = cross up dive consistently on wake up vs Ryu, Cody, Ken, Akuma, Guile, Honda, Blanka, Rog and Fei (this is all I tested so far). I have also tested on Dudley and Abel, but their hit boxes are too big.
The setup is for an occasional mix up option as you won’t get away with it over and over. As an example of usefulnes - if your opponent backdashes on wake up they dash into you for SPD, Ryu trys a dragon and gets reversaled or whiffs completely, Honda goes for buttslam you land and try to punish…etc None of these guys can reversal you on wake up basically with this setup and if you have conditioned them to block after LP SPD then you have a decent chance with this. It also opens up neutral jump options without the Dive into grab.
Someone please test this and if it does work as it seems to, then it could be another little tool to add for those already nasty wake up games.
for your consideration: hawk empty jump at close range. when you are predicting a jump from your opponent, if you jump before they do, you will be too high to get hit by an air-to-air normal, since hawk has the highest jump arc in the game (if hawk and hakan jump at the same time towards each other, hawk will actually jump over hakan in the air). MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS AN EMPTY JUMP. DON’T PRESS BUTTONS.
after the opponent’s air to air normal whiffs, you will both land right next to each other. this is a free SPD, super, or ultra, every single time, and there’s nothing they can do about it. just buffer the 360,720 in the air, and hit the buttons as soon as you land. this works in so many different situations against a lot of common air to airs, but depending on which normal the opponent throws out you might get hit. so watch out if they figure out what’s going on, but the vast majority of people will just be like, WTF just happened?!!? i land this stuff just about every match i play, so i think it’s pretty solid. let me know what happens, dudes.
saw a bunch of people talking about Crossup splashes, and why are people talking about Spires and shit after? Isn’t that really unsafe, and only useful if you hit confirm? Isn’t it more sense to pressure with cLP’s with SPD’s mixed in? Then go for more crossup splashes, with whiffed elbow drops into spd’s…
also, I’m loving that you can trade sHK with fireballs at the right range, and timing. Messed up some poor ken today with it, especially since it trades in damage WAY more in Hawks advantage.