Seems after EX SPD you can whiff lp jump forward dive at the peak and it crosses up on the same characters I mentioned above.
Was thinking a bit ago, and got to wondering how T. Hawk players can best utilize training mode. Hawk doesn’t have a large number of practical combos, so focusing purely on combo training doesn’t seem horribly practical. Just wondering if anyone has some good training mode tips. Obviously, the best training is actual gameplay, but that doesn’t always cut it.
Put the dummy on random block and do crossup splashes , s.cl.MP xx DP. Learn to hit confirm the splash and learn the ranges for where each dp will hit. Also try exCS instead of DP. That’s about it. You can also try buffering the spd, super, and U1 with the different normals for tick throw setups. That’s pretty much the only things to do. Other than standard combos.
Just use Llight Drag Punch. It keeps to close and you recover quick. You can get resversald hard. All of the enders with DP your opponant and tech back up. Only your SPD can put them in a non techable situation.
so… haven’t been able to play any ssf4 in like two weeks but i finally got a chance today so i spent about about an hour today working on the walking 720. after that i found a few setups where it can be downright nasty on people. By now, I’m assuming a number of you serious hawk players know what i’m talking about, especially with the success of vangief these days. If you don’t, just know that you can do a 720 by starting in up-back and moving counterclockwise to forward and then moving from forward clockwise to up-back (counts as two 360s). Basically, we have to buffer the up-back at the end of a poke so the game engine will allow us to have some time to walk forward a bit before the other 360 for the ultra/super activation. if you like to grab limbs you should add this to your bag of tricks and if you force your opponent into footsie matches a lot i also think you should spend some time getting this down.
Note: proper conditioning is really important here. walk forward jab, pretend you are balrog, is great for this and will help your tick throw game in general as it can keep your opponent grounded.
the best pokes to do this with, i’ve found so far, are st.mp and st.mk and i’ll explain why. both pokes are ridiculous and shut down many of most other characters’ options. they should both be pokes you are already tossing out so this tactic/gimmick shouldn’t pop out like a one-time use shenanigan that is easily spotted. the ranges of both pokes are also just around the range of the ultra, with st.mp going a bit further than ultra range and st.mk being just shy of it. furthermore, close mk works great on opponent wakeup and can be cancelled into ex spire. close mp, as you all know, is a rugged anti air and is special cancellable as well. i’m thinking jab can be good for it as well when combined with the walking jab routine to pressure, but i haven’t had time to focus on it.
So… Setups.
easiest setups (from a technical perspective) aren’t real specific but are surprises on a character’s wakeup (if you’ve seen Galileo play tager in bbcs and trick people in the corner with 5a/2b to buffer 720 during opponent quick recover you’ll know what i mean). hop into training room and land a sweep with the second hit just to give you more time to get in position, whiff the mk and bust out a little step forward as your opponent gets up. sorta works like the hp dp after an lp spd to ultra gimmick. Basically, land any untechable knockdown for this setup. This really isn’t the one I’d focus on if I were you, but I think it’s easier to start with this one.
Now, if, after an untechable knockdown you walk all the way to the opponent’s corpse and do the walking 720 starting from up-forward to back, you basically get a split second to see if your opponent tries to bust out an invincible reversal on wakeup before you commit. you’ll be able to block because you are taking a step back and it really seems to come out of nowhere when the ultra activates and, unless they jump or backdash, they should still be in range.
block string setup:
splash, lpx n, lk, whiff mk, step forward ultra. don’t even need to grab limbs if you do it at the right spacing so it’ll catch your opponent holding down back after your block string.
bait counterpoke:
i really shouldn’t have to explain this. just watch vangief matches.
lastly, you don’t have to whiff the normal to do this. at the end of my time in training mode i was actually finding it better to touch the opponent (hit or block) with st.mp so i could be sure i’d be in ultra range. the timing is different when this happens, though, as you have to wait longer to do the first 360 or else you won’t be able to walk at all. remember, you only need to hide the starting up-forward/back of the first 360 during the recovery of the normal. you force your opponent to block or you punish a poke of theirs with st.mp you take a little step forward, they go to poke you for moving forward, BAM ultra.
i’ve sorta been on the periphery lately so if anybody else already posted about this specific to hawk, my apologies. otherwise, i hope some other hawk players will fiddle with it and see how it works.
done more experimenting with the walking 720. it’s most brutal off of walking jab. and if you can get somebody afraid in the corner and start in with the jabs… it’s ridiculous when the 720 comes out. and, to correct my previous post, you can whiff st.mp and still be able to walk forward enough to land the 720.
in addition, in order to keep my opponents from jumping i’ve been doing longer, more varied block strings to keep my tick setups fresh:
jump in, jab, cl. mp, jab, far lk [xx ex spire]
jump in, cl. mp, jab, st.mp
jump in, cl.hp, jab, far lk [xx ex spire]
jump in, cl.hp, st.mp (does over 300 damage with just 3 hits!)
I’m pretty sure none of those are block strings. Good luck not getting DP’d when trying those out.
They are’nt really block strings true, but not horrible to use. Cl.HP is underrated as a normal to start with on block. Leaves you at +2 on block and + 6 on hit and comes out in 8 frames. Given the amount of block stun splash gives you it is well worth mixing into your game (block stun from splash probably makes it more like a ghetto 4-5 frame move). I’m going to check what happens if you try and DP it after blocked spash - if it trades then no problem…especially if you have a life lead.
I was watching that video that Jeff Schaefer did on how to be the best. Over the next few months I’m going to go into the lab and work out what Hawk needs to do in every situation against every character. I’ll post some of the stuff here for you guys as well.
Hawk only have a hand full of tick throw setups
Splash Jab
Splash Jab Jab
Splash Strong does not match matter version
Splash Jab Strong
Splash Short
Splash Jab Short: If you do standing short it will whiff on some characters.
Here are some other setups
LK -> Ex Conder Spire - Ultra 1
Ex Conder Spire - Ultra 1
Conder Dive - Ultra
L Conder Conder Spire - Ultra
Air to Air LP - > Conder Dive - SPD/Ultra This causes a reset on some characters
All tick throws are is that they test reaction.
@Blazebluer you should of done that 3 months ago =/ I did that stuff already.
I would start to be honest with characters people use on a regular basis.
Yeah I know I should have. 
That’s what I’m gonna do.
hey guys, just wanted to bring this up and get some opinions.
one thing i’ve been doing recently that has been very effective is a super delayed condor dive within mid range. this is the range where empty jump SPD would be possible, or whiff super early dive SPD would also be possible. basically, i’ll appear as if i’m doing an empty jump, and the opponent will either walk up to grab or try to anti air. in both cases, i do condor dive close to the last possible moment, and it’ll hit. and then i’ll be in the same range again. if they don’t anti air and opt to block instead, then it’s an SPD. also, (depending on the matchup) the range for empty jump SPD is also safe against a lot of anti air DP’s, so if they opt to uppercut, you can block right when you land, or their DP will just whiff completely. some characters have great horizontal range on DP’s and anti airs however (sagat, rose, chun) and this kinda shuts down empty jumps.
but against most of the cast, i do this only after i’ve trained the opponent to anticipate empty jump SPD (which tons of people sleep on, it seems), and it has worked very very well. anybody else do this?
You are correct. My mistake using the wrong term. I actually meant that i’ve been using them on hit since everything except the spire cancels will combo. I find that people are still underestimating hawk’s normals and the range they have so I catch a lot of people just continuing to try and backdash and jump out. also, most people don’t expect more normals after moves like cl.mp or cl.mp to combo so they get pretty surprised. I’m really just trying to see how I can best train people to stay on the damn ground or force them to jump at me at that magical range where cl.mp ruins everything they do. thanks for correcting me.
Yeah, it’s a great counter if you anticipate a sweep or anti-ir normal. I’ll often do one just to see what the opponent will react with.
Looking forward to this! Too bad sakeido/tmntemps couldn’t save those matches he had with you, I wanted to see your Hawk.
I’ve uploaded some vids, look in the video thread.
Some nice buffs. Enough? Well a better DP would have been nice. But looks better.
Hey there, haven’t started learning Hawk until just recently as I’ve been spending a lot of time getting oiled up, but I found a pretty nice vortex/mix up that I think has quite a bit of potential. Sorry in advance if it’s already been explored.
Mostly I’ve been using lp spd, just because I hate working my ass off to get back in. I’m sure a lot of people here have already played with lp spd > hp spire to cross up the opponent. I might’ve found some options that make it pretty dangerous. It’s a great set up for meaty cl.HP, but you can also get a cr.LK whiff in. After the cr.LK whiffs, immediate spd will catch wait, poke, throw, and wake up backdash. EX spire after the whiff will catch jump, attack, backdash, and will trade with reversal. After the cr.LK whiff you can also throw out a cl.MP to add some pressure.
The only problem I’ve found is that cr.LK whiff might not be safe from 3-frame DPs, which could suck, but it could very well be my timing. Either way you can still mix it up with a backdash after the hp spire into U1/spd or s.LK > EX spire
Any interest in Hawk appreciated, but cross up tricks after lp spd with HP spire has been explored loads already.
After the AE info I have been playing around with close HK as Capcom seem to have wanted to point this move out in the update. One thing that has been interesting is it whiffs in certain situations vs different characters. For Example:
Ryu - Splash, close s.hk whiffs completely. Jump HP hits and s.hk will hit
Gief - Splash close s.hk hits, but if normal jump HP lands instead on Gief, your close s.hk whiffs.
When it whiffs it kind of looks like when gief does his s.hk whiff into spd on turtlers. In both cases above, the move will be blocked if they block the splash or jump in.
Further interesting pieces come with spacing on hit or block and managing frames. Take the Gief example. If you land splash and then close s.hk you are max range for EX SPD, LP SPD or Ultra…you are also +4. EX SPD becomes an interesting option on hit becasue by the time the move is active (4 frame start up) they are coming out of hitstun. So a tiny delay and your opponent has only a small amount of time to react. On the other hand if your opponent blocks your splash and s.hk you are again at max range for all of the above, but neutralin frames, so its your best bet for Ultra or LP spd in that situation.
Will dig a bit deeper and come back with anything else remotely interesting.
Any interest in Hawk appreciated, but cross up tricks after lp spd with HP spire has been explored loads already.
After the AE info I have been playing around with close HK as Capcom seem to have wanted to point this move out in the update. One thing that has been interesting is it whiffs in certain situations vs different characters. For Example:
Ryu - Splash, close s.hk whiffs completely. Jump HP hits and s.hk will hit
Gief - Splash close s.hk hits, but if normal jump HP lands instead on Gief, your close s.hk whiffs.
When it whiffs it kind of looks like when gief does his s.hk whiff into spd on turtlers. In both cases above, the move will be blocked if they block the splash or jump in.
Further interesting pieces come with spacing on hit or block and managing frames. Take the Gief example. If you land splash and then close s.hk you are max range for EX SPD, LP SPD or Ultra…you are also +4. EX SPD becomes an interesting option on hit becasue by the time the move is active (4 frame start up) they are coming out of hitstun. So a tiny delay and your opponent has only a small amount of time to react. On the other hand if your opponent blocks your splash and s.hk you are again at max range for all of the above, but neutralin frames, so its your best bet for Ultra or LP spd in that situation.
Will dig a bit deeper and come back with anything else remotely interesting.