The only reliable way for them not to get pinned by Spire is to backdash and this is where the option select SPD or Ultra comes in…or another Spire or c.hk…etc. If they block the Spire, no move comes out, backdash and you just got hurt.
I need to test this some more, but any other thoughts appreciated as to whether this is going to have legs.
Just tested really quickly against ryu (have to work in 20 mins). And from what it looks like, unless they know this exact setup is coming, they’ll get hit. For example mashing backdash and then holding up will beat super/ultra/spd. However, they have to KNOW you’re going for that because if they dont hold up after the backdash, theyll get hit. Anticipation jump will make the spire whiff. If they jump a second too late, they’ll get hit by spire. I havent had time to test how good os ex spd / ex spire / regular spire would be though.
Also pumpkins post has you quoted saying ex spire, but your post says mp spire. I was goofing with mp/hp spire mainly
Was my mistake - MP and HP were the ones I used. An alternate setup was:
LP SPD, whiff lp, HP Spire > Option select something.
If they jump they get hit, if they backdash they walk straight into your grab. A good reversal move with reversal timing can get them out, but if you know your opponent does not have one or needs meter for one then that might be the time to use this.
The more I have tried the less mileage it seems to have though, but as an occasional mix up maybe.
Another mix up I worked on earlier was a reset off a Level 2/3 Focus on hit:
FA, late s.mp (reset) xx EX spire, SPD/Ultra 1.
You are left at neutral with your opponent. If you use normal spires you are left negative.
Would just like to say TAMANA - that that option select you found is awfully dirty. It became exponentially better when I goofed off with it with ultra 2. Just leaving it at that for now. Evo is around the corner
I don’t understand how you’re pulling off MP spire after a s.lk FADC. That’s like 200 frames. Any player should be able to get out of that. Are you back or forward dashing after the FADC? I’m not trying to be a smart ass, I honestly don’t understand.
No worries. The “xx” means special cancel not FADC.
Easiest way to explain with hawk is: s.mp xx HP Tomahawk.
This is a bit like Sagats Tiger knee strings. There is a gap that your opponent can jump away or back dash, but most people I do this to are too bothered with blocking. Even a normal DP trades with the spire and with Hawks HP it still makes it worth it. The spacing leaves you safe on block and the only moves that beat you clean are EX with invincible frames on start up - EX headbutt, EX Messiah, EX DP. You can’t spam this like SF4 Sagat Knee strings, but to mix it in with your lp block strings, tick grabs…etc is a good variation and you can OS the spire :-).
This stuff is therefore situation sepcific…but it’s something.
^ I was using that mix-up last night in an endless with some friends. I would either clip them with it or they would just block/jump away. It beats out any pokes that they throw out as well, like Ryu’s c.mk for instance. That shit it good.
After a string of c.lp, s.lp, s.lp, s.lk, you’re too far away from them to do a cl. MP> spire. Even if, wouldn’t you need to do EX?
Sorry, my memory is blank right now. If I had visuals it would all make sense to me. I have a feeling I’m already familiar with the steps but I can’t “see” it. I can try later today when I get home. The HP spire animation pushes (slides) them back into the corner, I think I mentioned that in an older post. Ugh, I’m confused-and am not trying to sound like a know-it-all! LOL
Yes and while your doing the spire, buffer in a 360 or ex dp. One or the other. If they backdash and dont do anything, they get 360’d. If they backdash and jump they avoid 360. If they backdash and dont do anything, the ex dp misses, but if they backdash and jump, the ex dp will hit them. If they stay there, the spire hits them. There are ways out of it though.
I find that if it’s
c.lp, s.lp, s.lp, s.lk xx MP Spire
I can safely jump away after blocking the s.lk.
But if it’s
c.lp, s.lp, s.lp, s.lk xx EX Spire
I cannot jump back. So we have to risk burning a meter for this OS.
Also, you can also do s.mp, s.lp, s.lp, s.lk XX EX Spire for better damage (and you can tick MT off a cl.mp too!) . There’s also one more scenario you guys forgot though: if your opponent mashes a srk in between s.lk and EX spire the spire will get beat
Can someone be a little more precise? I’ve read through this OS stuff a few times but it doesn’t seem like you guys are talking about a real OS setup. Sounds more like it’s just a buffered SPD/EX DP. What are the inputs exactly and situations?
