LP SPD, safe jump splash, OS DP/c.lp - this works vs Ryu and leaves you safe all round.
The above stuff is buffers out of Spire like you say and there are some reversals and get outs for sure. What it does do though is leaves you an option to prepare something and then press an appropriate button on reaction. It is not 100% proof. Where it gets more interesting is on wake up as a meaty spire spaced right as only EX reversals with invincibility frames will beat it (so if they have no EX, no Ultra or Super, you can go to town) and if I take Ryu as an example the following happens after a LP SPD followed by meaty MP Spire:
He Jumps and Spire hits him.
He throws out a normal and spire hits him.
He normal DPs and it trades for even damage.
He blocks and if you used MP spire after a LP SPD you are safe and your buffered move does not come out.
He back dashes and you get him with the buffered SPD. There is not enough time for the opponent to recover from the backdash and then reversal.
Sounds like an option select to me as none of the above leave you worse than even in any case. Lots of Hawks setups are unfortunately not cut and paste for all characters.
Hawk can meaty jump fp, then j.lp(insta overhead) into hawk dive. Two things though, if you cancel the jab immidiatly and they stay ducking they can block the dive, if you delay the timing of the dive a little it can cross up or fly past the enemy epending on the chars fatness of crouching. If they stand in reaction to the jumping jab and you quickly canceled into dive it will combo, it wont otherwise.
Anyone notice that after EX SPD it leaves you right between where LP and MP would. In messing about with this, it seems to be the best range to instantly jump forward xx cross up Dive, which then leaves you at the perfect range for another LP or EX SPD - just another mix up option.
Also you can meaty splash after EX SPD and it stuffs loads of stuff (none EX), and leaves your opponent with only one escape…a backdash. So a set up for OS sweep.
I like Magus tip. Going to mess about with that later as Hawks landed HP jump/splash jump ins give him an age to combo off.
^^ In case you havent found out yet (in regards to your last line), after any splash/fp, you can combo st.jab cl.mp ex spire you just have to walk forward a split second.
I have just been going for the neat cl.mp, but an added lp (damage and the hit confirm elemnt too) will help. I have started to EX Spire off hit splash instead of Tomahawk if I have the meter. I prefer the mix up opportunities and fraction more time it gives you. It does not hurt that it does over 300 damage and leaves you next to a knockeddown opponent either. It is the closest thing Hawk has to Giefs green hand combos, with the possibility of a follow up.
Edit: Another couple of things that have been discussed before, but I have looked to try out in random ranked matches to see how they fair, are jump lp xx Condor Dive as an anti air/air to air and thrust peak as an anti air.
Jump lp xx Condor is something I have not seen in any videos, but it seems very strong. Although Hawks arm points down the hitbox is really odd as it always hits above (probably becasue it comes out in 4 frames and has long active frames). So an example, you see Ryu go for a jump in, on reaction you jump and put out the lp immediately it hits as a counter and you then cancel that into dive, which crosses under your falling opponent and then you are ready for a mix up and the momentum has been turned on its head. I find that SPD works as they land often and if you try a second time it is often best to do something defensive or EX Tomahawk with 2 bars as they often remember and look to reversal you.
Thrust peak speaks for itself really, but it is 3 frames so really fast and can be left late. It results in a counter hit so juggles and you can cancel it into a whiffed Tomahawk or Spire (a little counter intuitive going from down forward to neat reveral DP) off the the anti air hit. Why would you do this? As an example, if you LP Tomahwak, you still land first, built a bit of meter and you are as close as you can get for all your options.
I use thrust peak similarly, when someone neutral jumps over me I hit then dash under at the last second while buffering SPD or try to go into another combo.
Anyone think we should make a Safe-Jump thread? There’s a lot of character-specific ones obviously, so knowing the best option after each of T.Hawk’s knockdowns would be very helpful.
There doesn’t seem to be a beginner Q&A thread so I guess this would be the best place to ask. What’s the best way to learn tick throwing? I understand the concept of forcing someone to block then throwing but what’s the best move/easiest to tick throw with?
Generally T.Hawk’s normal throw has terrible range and consider Makoto’s stance/hitbox yes it can whiff.
But you don’t need normal throw to grabbers.(atlist not so much).
Since with SPD’s have better range and damage and setups.
But i guess everything is interesting to watch.
Coming back on some things I posted on using spire as a combo ender a while back to close space and OS grabs and stuff out of them I found last night that:
c.lp, s.lp, s.lp, s.lp xx EX Spire…
…actually leaves Hawk at positive frames on block and sat right next your opponent. Very useful IMO. You can’t throw immediately as your opponent is still in blockstun, but you could repeat the process adding more pressure. I reckon it leaves him at +1 or 2 at best. This block string will work on lots of the cast even if they are crouching (not Rog so far from testing as last s.lp whiffs). If they press a button or try to throw, your close s.lp will hit as a counter and SPD is guaranteed - as long as your timing is sound. If they have a good reversal look out though as people will not want to be kept under pressure like this. Added advantage is no jump backs or neutral jumps from your opponent will escape the EX Spire, so they will have to learn to stay put or deal with your next mix up off the knockdown.
Edit: OS for Makoto is the same as Viper - LP SPD, Splash, OS EX Tomahawk/jabs. This kills her EX Fukiage (which moves her to one side and the EX Tomahawk auto corrects and smashes her) and it kills her EX overhead move dead too (normal Tomahwak looses to it). Splash kills all other reversal attempts. Still have other characters to try OS on and despite Hawks shortfalls have decided to drop any other characters I have been playing (Dee Jay and I’m retiring my Honda) and focus on the big man 100%. Strangely (or not), I have found that I have glaring holes in my game having played Hawk for a bit now - in Hondas case a character with reversal options coming out of backside - very easy to take for granted, when you play Hawk and have to have way more solid defence/footsies/spacing…etc
This beats his back teleport clean giving you a knockdown for instant pressure and if he does forward teleport it depends on how early or late he does timing on wake up. Early and you auto correct
EX Spire and hit him. Late and you Spire away from him, but are left safe. You can replace EX Spire with MP version, but just wont get the knockdown. Dont use Sweep as an OS as if he does forward teleport you are left doing the sweep and open to getting hit with those long limbs.
Does the above beat Dhalsim’s df. lk slide into throw? Cos I fought many Dhalsims that like to do the lk slide (that low profiles under my splash) and throw me. So far, I’ve been mixing in empty jump to 360s if I see this coming, but if the above works I can have a more concrete option.
If you see a slide, mash ex 360. Seriously. I do that when I play seth against sim. If I do a dive kick and he slides underneath, hit block or whiff, ex 360 seems to work, like always. I highly doubt its guaranteed (as in the sim cant do anything) but most sims wont do anything to avoid it. Really he has to jump away, or backdash and those are both pretty shitty options up close. Most of the time they spam back short or throw.