I mean in ultra
True, I didn’t consider this stupid wake up change but with time players could develop more tech for delayed wake up.
That universal system change grinds my gears somewhat. I know Capcom wants to blunt vortexes but I think messing with wake up is the wrong way to do it.
Simply put I dislike the new universal system changes as a whole, I think red focus can benefit T Hawk to some extent but the reports on it are mixed so far. Ultra Combo Double is generally meh, most players don’t need a second option. And obviously I have a gripe with making untechable knock downs more pointless.
Then I don’t know. THey said they’ll make it not pointless, so I assume it will be useful in the final product regardless.
With c.mk special cancellable you can do the following combos on some characters:
c.mk xx lTHB (close range)
c.mk xx mTHB (point blank, unreliable)
c.mk xx exTHB (close range)
c.mk xx exCS (close range)
They’ve also reduced the pushback on cl.mp, so you may be able to do some of the following depending on if they’ve reduced it as much as I did!
cl.mp c.mk xx exTHB (unreliable)
cl.mp c.mk xx exCS (point blank)
There’s no reason to do either of these though given that you can use cl.mp cl.mp for same damage, or cl.mp cl.mk for more damage.
Obviously c.mk xx exCS is also never a true blockstring with the current CS properties, even from point blank range. I think it would pretty unlikely for them to increase hit/blockstun for c.mk or to speed up CS, so I’d say the ‘usefulness’ of c.mk cancellability will be confined to cancelling into exCS as a means to get in.
Thrust peak command change is dubious. You have to let go of the stick if you want to use st.lp? That seems really awkward.
Otherwise everything else seems dandy. Need to know how the Blanka matchup is affected by these changes.
Personally I like to walk forward and chain the jabs but I agree that changing the command is not necessary.
Pretty certain Blanka is harder to play against. His proposed changes are quite good like knockdown hp roll and airborne cl.mk. his anti u2 is also 7f.
Edit: New question, was thinking about the new command for Condor Spire. With this change in the loc test version of the game does this give T.Hawk access to DP shortcuts? The way I understood it before, due to the overlap all motions had to be true.
Hungbee plays T. Hawk. I like what I see so far! 
For the lazy, match starts at 50m30s:
Close HP seems to have less pushback on block
The cl.mp activation range buff that T.hawk got actually has a few uses surprisingly enough. Aside from the obvious damage/hit increase to our B&B splash combo, the activation range will probably now allow us to more effectively use cl.mp as an anti-air. It’s 5f and 4 active and hits in a spot that T.hawk has trouble dealing with in the air aside from trying to j.attack an opponent or trying to Thrust Peak an opponent. It’s probably better than Thrust Peak in some regards because the last two active frames are above T.Hawk’s head instead of the first few active frames. It also does more damage although it’s 2 frames slower on startup.
The range was pretty noticeably extende when I played him this weekend.
Just back from the ultra SF4 location test at Tough Cookie Singapore. So a short early impression. I also hope I remember the update correctly.
Like:
-
Condor Spire start up buff. This is quite a game changer. You can pressure by LK/cr. MK to condor spire. During footie or when opponent is knockdown, by varying condor spire, you can bait out dp, whiff to command throw or pressure. I was already doing this in AE but in Ultra it is more effective because of the pressure.
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Condor Spire command change to dp. First, now it is easiler to use ex version to pass through projectile by reaction. Second, the shortcut df,df+K works.
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Faster move speed. It is really just a bit faster so you would not feel sluggish movement. It give T-Hawk better position but the footie game still remain the same. I still find myself using dash and condor spire to move forward fast.
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Thrust Peak command change. No more accidental Thrust Peak while crouching.
Dislike:
- Thrust Peak command change. Now a lot more accidental Thrust Peak when I want to mash the standing LP combo. The disadvantage out weight the advantage for me.
Uncertain:
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Ex Tom. Buster FADC. Not really sure what to do with it. It take 3 bar to use as defend. So I think it is more useful at offend.
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Ultra 2 extended range. Unsure whether it help me during the test.
Other:
- There a lot of command change. My game was very mess up initially. The worst is that I have to remember not to hold back when using stand LP.
Result:
So did it improve my game? My offensive is much improve by the combination of the faster condor spire and walk speed. I found that I use LK and MK condor spire more than in I was in AE. The HK version feel less useful because I can move in faster. The defensive game remind the same to me as I not use to the red focus and delay wake up.
Damn, nice to hear he got some new stuff in the more recent builds. Combofiend was telling me that they were trying to give him something to combo off of low forward outside of point blank range (he used LK Spire as an example, which seems nuts). I’m really keeping my fingers crossed for that.
Back from day 2 of the location test in Singapore.
Today I did not play. My purpose first was to recheck some changes that I clearly remember wrongly. Second is to feedback about the annoying new command for the Thrust Peak. Turn out it will be change back to the original command as there are also players complain about it.
As I was writing down the interesting stuffs I observed, someone just sat next to me (I was sitting on a row of empty chair). When I look up, it turn out to be Combofiend! It was great talking to him. He also explain to me about some of the changes made which I will share below. Unfortunately I forgot to pitch my idea of T-Hawk having air condor spire which can be cancel into condor dive. Damn.
- Condor Spire changes
LK and MK version have faster startup. The LK version is particularly fast. HK version no change. The command short cut df,df+K can be done, it is nice.
- Far Heavy Kick hurt box change
This is confusing me because all the list from before state differently. The dreamhack one state that the hurtbox is smaller. The capcom cup one state that the hit box has more range. Lucky Combofiend was there to clarify. The far standing heavy kick have hurt box extend a bit downward because some characters like Zangief have problem dealing with it. This is therefore a nerf.
- Thrust Peak will be revert back to the old command.
Will be revert to old command due to feedback. I suggest changing to fwd LP but the staff point out that it will mess up when moving forward and LP as a move and poke pressure. So the original command is still the best.
- EX Condor Spire extended range
EX Condor Spire range is extended. This goes very well with the increase walk speed and command change. I was able to use ex condor spire to hit Oni through his projectile by reaction.
- EX Tomahawk Buster FADC
Combofiend explain that it is only FADC on EX version because it has invincibility frames in it so it make more sense.
It make lot of sense to me. For me I would not use it as 1. It take 3 bars. 2. Not use to it. To me this is only good if when canceling into condor dive will left T-Hawk trap in a corner, then backing out with FADC will be a better option.
- Delay wake up is T-Hawk biggest defensive buff
I also rise the issue of T-Hawk problem against Vega’s Izuna Drop. The staff point out that delay wake up will solve this. I also feedback to Combofiend that T-Hawk have nothing much or new on the defensive side and still weak against very rush down and cross up characters. He told me to try the delay wake up and T-Hawk is hard do much on this aspect. I agreed with him as I also wasn’t able to come out with any suggestion on this.
If someone gets the chance to try this build of USFIV, you should try some stuff with T.Hawk’s 11-frame LP Spire. It’s supposedly -2 on block, and I can only assume that’s on the first active frame. Currently you get two more frames of advantage on hit than on block, which would mean it’s 0 on hit. Now, CH lights combo into EX Spire which is 15 frames, so that means a 14-frame move will combo when cancelled from a light. That means you can hit with LP Spire on the 4th active frame, making it +3 on hit, which might allow you to link cl.LP and get an infinite with the correct dummy. Alternatively, cancel it from c.MK to make it +4 or more.
Should be easy to test by doing a combo like: “c.LP, c.LP, s.LP, c.MK xx LP Spire, s.LP (, c.MK) xx LP Spire (, s.LP/LP Tomahawk)”.
Yeah that’s a good point raised earlier.
With Delayed Wake Up being implemented, where is T. Hawk suppose to apply damage now that his wakeup game has been weakened?
I assume we’ll just have to find set-ups against DWU as well and then guess on which one to use.
Focus dash up lp.typhoon. :)))))
With new types of wake ups there will be new types of pressure. How good it is well… we’ll just have to wait and see. It certainly makes the mix up less of paper scissors rock mini game.
The thing is that hawk is already an awesome character.
Why buff him?
Look at his move list.
Condor dive to punish every fireball users. If his jump wasnt so flooty and slow and condor dive start up like in a million years.
Condor spire to close range and even go through fireballs with ex version to punish everything. It can be done if it woudnt start up in billion years and get punished when you do get close.
Mexican typhoon to punish all characters when you get close with above moves. Thats IF you can get close.
When opponent attack you with jump you can aa them with tomahawk buster. But hawk get busted himself when using this move. Best aa in the game for sure.
He can punish jump ins with ultra2. That also a big IF he can grab anything. I got seth and yun dive kick and u2 misses them. Best ultra in the game.
Hawk kills with his footsies. Thats when you get hurt because his footsies has no priority at all. His cr mk and st mp are ok. Cr mk still cant reach compared to others like ryu cr mk. It just kills hawks footsies. His st mp goes even less far. Yes again, hawk has the best footsies is the game.
I dont even know where to begin with this character.
His awesomeness goes through the roof.
I like the buffs they are giving him.
But with all others also receiving buffs, you guys knows as much as me he ends up in tier list.
He will be broken tier in this broken game. That top of the losers if you ask me.
Also look into his focus attack. Takes longest in the whole game to come out. It cant hit anything. Why bother use it the first place.
At least what they can do his give him faster focus, faster jump ( 1 frame off his up and 1frame off when falling, i think these 2 frames out of his how many jump frames, like 24 if im not mistaken. Is not much to ask ), his dashes are terrible, give it a little more range on it so he got more mobilety.
I think i will hear that hes got faster walk speed now so why give it to him.
The thing is, with faster walk speed his dash does shit now. Why dash when can just walk and get there the same time.
Trustpeak is an kick ass move. It kills what? Not jump ins. Because using it as aa your opponent land earlier before you recover and you eat damage again.
Combofiend should try him out or all the capcom staff involved with this game.
I would love to see their frustrations on their faces when playing trash hawk.
Theres no end to what to do with this guy, but enough said.
Waisting 3 years on this guy and see no buffs all that time made me quit this game. Capcom says they did buff him every time. Yeah, his buffs are like you piss out of your penis or vagina and then you can now piss out of your ass. Great buffs. Does it make any difference? Guys im telling you this, we re waisting our time on this guy. Capcom will just nerf all his moves again. Nothing is certain what they are giving him. Dont get your hopes up. I tell capcom, just give him no hitbox and just all hurtbox will solve the problem. He is way too good already. Capcom way of thinking.
Lol, you mad?
-HP Tomahawk is a great anti-air if used correctly.
-U2 is getting buffed to better deal with cross-up situations.
-Footsies, pressure and combo damage is getting better thanks to improved LP Spire and cancellable c.MK. (I find it funny that you complain about his mediums in footsie situations, when what you want to use is his lights or heavies. Also dives and spires.).
-His focus might be slow, but it’s not as telegraphed as other focuses, and it has decieving range. You can charge it to lv.2 and your opponent will barely have any more time to react than they do to lv.1.
-Dash can be used to bait the opponent.
-Thrust peak is the perfect anti-divekick tool. It always recovers before the opponent does on airhit, which is what counts.
T.Hawk got more buffs in USFIV than I could ever hope for. The only nerfs he got was the far s.HK hurtbox and DWU in general (And to some degree by changing Thrust Peak to b.LP, which prevents Grab Tech OSing with it), which Capcom have compensated by giving him a better pressure game vs standing opponents. LP spire buff alone makes him so much better in so many ways. DWU will also aid his wake-up game when he has no meter, so it’s not all bad.