Swedish Cartoonist Who Drew "Muhammad" Assaulted

Because, among the staggering majority of Christians, even the Dude that killed George Tiller and the 700 Club “Haitians made a dead with Satan” aren’t acceptable. There’s no debate or question about this. You could ask any Christian SRKer and they’d say exactly this. Yet you’re VERY hard-pressed to find Muslims who don’t think Theo Van Gogh didn’t have it coming. Finding people who support violence in the name of Christianity is very, very difficult (hence the term “fringe”). Finding Muslims who think that attacking people who drew something they don’t like, evidently, isn’t.

Now answer my question:

In modern day society, both in America and abroad, who is more open and willing to use violence to achieve their goals? Christians or Muslims?

Didn’t I answer this? I am sure that I said JEWS right?

WTF is Weeks doing in here on topic. Get out, evidently we’re comparing religions now.

this just in: they all suck, and their perceived “friendliness” is mostly related to how much of the book crap they ignore.

Luckily American Christians while crazy, ignore a lot.

YOU ARE AGAIN COMPARING FUCKING MURDER TO HITTING SOMEONE. Secondly, I could find Christians who find the haitians making a deal with satan comment acceptable

I bet you I can easily find muslims on SRK who do not condone the violence against Theo Van Gogh. Will you retract your bigotry if I do?

Only for you, because you’re obviously not knowlegeable about the world around you. I know of plenty of Christian violence. Before both Desert Storms there were MASSES of Christians who wanted to invade Iraq to spread Christianity there.

If you consider how violent the U.S. government is abroad, and the fact that Christians are so fond of calling this a Christian nation, it’s a coin toss. If you consider all violence, it’s highly competitive. But do you discard the muslim violence in the middle east or on American soil that is a direct result of American government (christian) action? Obviously their militaries cannot face ours head on, so how do you keep score?

As I said, no one’s hands are clean, but since you obviously start from the fact that you hate muslims and work from there, nothing I can say will convince you. You are quite obviously very ignorant of global issues though.

hrm. i like theo van gogh. he in no way had it coming.

Multiple stab wounds, slit throat, paper pierced onto his chest. Because of his work?

Why don’t pornographers get this kind of abuse? Oh its because they’re not reminding everyone of how stupid their beliefs are.

Rok, I edited my post a bit because I confused Theo Van Gogh for a bit with the cartoonist. But Spudly, if I can find muslims who condemn the murder of Theo Van Gogh, and the violence against the cartoonist on SRK, will you shut the fuck up? Or stop being a fucking bigot?

Why would he shut up if you found muslims who are for the killings. Its gettin’ loopy in here.

I keep making typos because I have had a VERY LONG DAY, I said “condone” when I meant “condemn”. I’m going to bed.

Now my posts look disjointed. YOU!!!

Considering there are over a billion Muslims on the planet, statements like this do not make any sense. If the vast majority of Muslims supported violence as a first response, the majority of the planet would be in a state of absolute pandemonium (considering that they aren’t confined to one small area of the globe). This isn’t the case. The areas where riots and violent acts occur in response to minor things like offensive images (for example) are rather slim and are populated by a high concentration of extremists. Yes, you will find the occasional person of faith attacking someone else because of an offense, but the fact remains that there are only small parts of the world where this is actually a problem. The reason is because there is only a tiny part of the Muslim population that doesn’t think bombings and riots aren’t completely fucking stupid responses to what they don’t like. You’re making statements like that because you only ever hear about the hard line Muslim population’s latest insanity and you’re simply ignorant.

Lots of “blame the victim” going on in this thread. Sorry, but the moment the violence begins, the responsibility belongs 100% to the attacker. There is not even a shred of justification for it. It doesn’t matter if he drew Muhammad with a ball gag and nipple clamps.

Blame anybody who’s stupid enough to think that choosing to venerate a bunch of made-up bullshit means that everybody else has to venerate it, too.

I’m just sad DHEvil put his lastest comments in when everyone was sidetacked. I think he was about to get crazy.

Crazier I mean.

Nope.

this is not going to end well :frowning:

And the requirement for Jizya tax and dhimmi status. Basically the dhimmi gets a “you can live in varying levels of bad” card for paying jizya. Also subject to getting their place of a worship treated like shit, getting attacked, etc. This happens often with a lot of religions.

A tolerance of people, I think historically, had a lot to do with it being a pain in the ass to fight more when there could be some kind of benefits to the system by keeping them as they are. For instance, I think Muhammed and his group really didn’t have the skills necessary to support themselves in many ways, so the dhimmi status was created. The dhimmis lose in all kinds of ways.

i’m not malaysian, but i spend a lot of time there, i have family there, i can without reservation say you’re talking nonsense. your posts make it clear your views have been sculpted by zero real expirence with non radical muslims. i am enjoying your posts though.

anyone who reads srk knows you’re a very principled person, i disagree with your beliefs on this one and whilst i dont think violence for such trivial matters as drawing a pic of the Prophet is neccessary i think such a blanket rule is completely out of tune with reality. However i hope you never face a situation that makes you change your views.

Can we please stop calling this ‘trivial’. It really isn’t. You might not understand why, and you may never (especially if you don’t try to), but there is a reason why people are angry over this, and suffice it to say it is not at all unreasonable.

Note I made no mention of reaction with violence when referring to whether the reaction of anger was at all unreasonable. I personally am not sure where I stand on this matter and as such have little position to comment. It’s a very serious issue and I hope you can appreciate that I withhold my full stance on the matter before making an informed and thought out decision.

ALL I will say for now is the following:

On the one hand, these ARE very serious insults and attacks against Islam. We don’t see these matters in the same way that you do. PLEASE UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THIS. INSULTS AGAINST THE PROPHET (P.B.U.H.) ARE SEEN AS DIRECT THREATS AND ATTACKS AGAINST ISLAM AND ALL WHO FOLLOW IT IN THE GRAVEST AND MOST EVIL SENSE. You may NEVER understand why this is, but just understand that this IS our position. You may see it as trivial, but do not assume that this should apply to everyone.

However, that brings me on to the other side of the argument in my head. It’s precisely because you don’t appreciate Muhammed (p.b.u.h.) in the same way we do and understand why he is so important that it’s hard to hold those responsible for these images to full accountability. If they don’t understand why their actions are so repulsive, then they can’t appreciate why it’s wrong.

Of course, insulting almost anyone by drawing their head on the body of a dog is immoral and frankly childish in the first place, but before we can hold someone fully accountable for why this case precisely is so offensive to us, it’s a little more complicated how these instances should be treated. If they don’t believe they are attacking Islam in the most grave and evil sense as described above, I’m not entirely sure we can treat it that way.

And how I personally feel about the images specifically is this: I get angry when I even hear of such things. I get a lump in my throat and admittedly I’m not sure how I would compose myself when faced with someone doing these things. I am usually well mannered and reserved in public, so I’m not a nutjob, but it is because I appreciate why Mohammed (p.b.u.h.) is so important, so respected and so revered by us that I get angry. You might never understand this feeling, but similairly I will never understand why anyone would want to insult the prophet (p.b.u.h.), for any reason.

There are differences between us. We have different buttons that, when pushed, get us angry. What I don’t understand is, why push those buttons?

TL;DR-

I come from a world you may not understand.

There is no justification for that in Islam. I think you’ve been reading from biased sources…

Read more on the history of Islam. For your own sake.

As to the topic: I don’t agree with violent reactions to the cartoons - never have and never will. To me, it’s an insult that so called muslims, when it suits them, go out of their way to beat the snot out of those who mock Islam but do absolute jack shit to actually benefit the muslim community as a whole.

Presently, muslim countries suck ass (overall); our leaders are all kinds of corrupt, our gdp is horrible and we have absolutely zero political presence in any country that isn’t our home land. We’re basically Dan tier.

So for certain muslims (and it is a certain few, not all) to take up arms over such trivial issues (in the grand scheme of things) but do nothing about their home countries (where unfathomable evil occurs by so called muslims to other muslims!) - that really offends me. Not cartoons of the Prophet, but this kind of bullshit by people I am supposed to call brothers.

Lacking composure to face words with words and refrain from being the first to resort to violence is not something that is respectable.

If you find something really insulting, you insult the person back, the first person to resort to their fists (or in this case forehead) is the one who is ultimately the loser in situations like this, you cannot decry something as childish when your response is equaly childish. (Especialy in cases like this when the violence will not only reflect on you, but damage the reputation of the very thing that you are trying to protect from being insulted or whatever in the first place)

i thought a consensus would have been reached before 9 pages on such an easily argued topic. @_@

DHevil im curious… (serious question) is depicting the prophet so strictly forbidden because people who do are seen as an evil Jinn inhabiting that persons body in an attempt to usurp god’s authority? i really would like an explanation (short if possible) as to why this is such a terrible thing to do.

on topic; thanks weeks for sticking it out in this thread, and providing a logical argument amidst all the garbage and repeating of garbage.

since i’ve really got nothing more to say ill just leave with this: IMO anyone following ANY religious belief system is an idiot but i respect your right to be wrong ;). that includes every known religion under the sun that ever was or will ever be, as well as atheists. i believe in governing my life according to my life’s experiences and not what someone tells me.
if you ever take to violence because of non-violent acts that makes you a neanderthal and the world would be better off without you. im sorry to all the ‘moderates’ of any religion that have to put up with nut jobs or bigots on the other side of the fence (dunno where i was going with that).
but basically if you can’t respect the fact that the artist is giving a demonstration on artistic freedom then you’re an even bigger idiot than the guy that headbutt him, i don’t care if you’re for or against what happened. Protecting this right is just as important as free speech, because if art is no longer free from control (religious or political) then we’re all in for SERIOUS trouble. i mean shit, art is the ONE last area of free expression left with the erosion of free speech thanks to ‘free speech zones’.