Yes, please.
Haha. Lmao @ Athena being D tier among other things.
If I had to make a list, it’d be more like this:
Broken Tier: Shin Gouki, Serious Mr. Karate, Athena, Red Arremer
S Tier: Geese, Zero, Orochi Iori
A Tier: Goenitz, Violent Ken, Demetri, Guile, Terry, Tessa, Chun Li
B Tier: Kyo, Iori, Gouki, Shiki, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Kim, Sim, Mars People
C Tier: Kasumi, Choi, Mai, Earthquake, Genjuro , Ryo, Mr. Karate
D Tier: Boxer, Dictator, Claw, Hugo
E Tier: Dan
Yeah the matches are great, I just meant that I wish the game got more attention but by that same token I know why it didn’t lol. Anyhow I dont really know how good I am in this game, I think I have a good enough grasp on it but I only really had XBL comp. Although with the talk of the tiers in this game, I honestly don’t know why the unlockable characters are simply not banned. Granted the game would still be far from perfectly balanced, but we could at least stop having people constantly complain over the tiers in this game.
Because simply put, the game is best played for casuals. Also as I briefly discussed in the fighting game lounge earlier, the midbosses being banned may very well be the case in the asian tournies fiol and I linked earlier. I have not run across an “official ruleset” for their tournies and considering most games do not allow characters you would have to enter in codes to use on an arcade cabinet (you have to do so in the arcade version) they probably were banned. Seeing as players over there certainly aren’t shy to tier whore and there was no midboss characters in the placings, its the only explanation.
I agree with this tier list, however Hugo and Mai need to be a little higher, and Earthquake and Mr. Karate need to be way higher.
Mr. Karate is easily the best non-boss shoto in the game.
Hugo I can agree with, after I saw that really good one in the Asian tourney. His offense and knowledge for best air normals was simply fantastic and his baiting of Guard Cancel dash was great. Also, having the Gigas Breaker as only a 360 instead of 720 makes it very cheap after a successful GCFS. He has good combo options, being able to have all of his supers and stuff like comboing Hammer Frenzy off of lps. He can also combo and basically make an inescapable tick throw off of claps into regular 360. So maybe B tier, but he’d undoubtedly be at the bottom simply because his size is a large set-back, especially to those with good zoning options.
Mai…I wouldn’t move her up. Simply put she is a vastly buffed version of NGBC BUT with the inclusion of GCFS her mix-ups and usual trickery become far less safe than in KOF or Battle Coliseum, where most of the time they would be neutral at worst. Other than that she has very good tools, mobility but she is held back from using them very much and has to be more defensive.
You spoke of Mr. Karate and he’s def solid, but I don’t know if he’s on the same tier as Gouki. I picked him up a few months back and he def has a strong zoning, SFII style game, which is amazing in this system but he needs better normals and ways to bait GFCS. He does take good damage (the least in the game behind Hugo) and Hien Shippu can be hard to punish sometimes even with GCFS but other’s such as Gouki simply have more to work with (godlike divekick, air fireballs, mix-ups off demon flip, stronger [corner] combos, better normals). I’m curious as to your thoughts on why he would be higher.
Earthquake I can’t see either. He just seems too unsafe with his mix-ups and is also a big target. However, his normals aren’t good like Hugo’s. He has some nice supers and an annoying zoning game with fart projectile but that’s all I see. If if weren’t for some of this stuff he’d be almost as bad as dictator because you don’t even need to use GCFS to punish a lot of his stuff (ie. waste of meter to use GFCS on dictator most of the time; if you block scissor kicks, free combo). =/
Like a member on here said, if you dont use the bosses the game is actually fun. A couple buddies of mine would play it online on kaillera and would just have fun. The things that people call “broken” actually work well together when you know how to play and play against people that know how to play. The reason I like this game is due to the fact that they did not water down any snk characters like they do in other capcom vs snk games. Snk is strong and so is capcom, of course some have some stuff that others may not like but that’s why you adapt and play smart. To give an example, here are the pages of my buddies and the videos that they have recorded: http://www.youtube.com/user/cdmejia#p/u , this guy, Age, has dan casuals and is the best svc player, http://www.youtube.com/user/SvChamp#p/u/34/3rDzsxJoNBY .
Good matches. I like the Akuma. and the mix-ups in particular.
The Dictator match was interesting to watch.
Ryu is a pretty good shoto here I think. Press buttons, link to Shinkuu Hadouken. Good priority on the SRK too. Akuma is around A or B, A in the right hands I guess, it’s just the low hp that hampers him IMO (same weakness as O. Iori). Demon flip and air fireballs are really good. I would put (normal) Iori a notch higher if Terry’s there, too. Does what KOF Iori can do more or less + strong Max Mode stuff. It’s akin to his KOF 2002 max stuff, but maybe better since the qcfx4 + :snka::snkc: explosion followup to his Ya Otome is meterless in this game.
Kim close :snkc: to Exceed = lol
Based on my experience and from what I have observed:
A Tier: Guile,Tessa,Chun Li,Terry,Gouki,Kyo,Iori
A- Tier: Shiki,Ryu,Ken,Sagat,Kim,Sim,Kasumi
B Tier: Mr.Karate,Ryo,Choi,Mai,Genjuro,Earthquake
C Tier: Hugo,Boxer,Dictator,Claw
I don’t feel as if the tiers are that divided, but aside from that I agree with the list with a few exceptions.
Not only is his Gigas Breaker insanely good, the rest of his throws are just plain good. Ultra Throw is really good and Megaton Press from it is just really solid damage. His jabs and f+A are really good at annoying people and chipping life. Good GCFS bait too. He’s still not THAT high because of people like Guile and Tessa that he has way too hard of a time getting, that’s why I said he’s only a tad underrated. In non-boss SvC, he’s actually much better.
shrug I simply disagree. I think she can still runaway very well. She’s basically what Vega SHOULD have been in this game. Her Fire Twirl super is stupidly easy to crossup with and very hard to punish.
I think you all are overrating Akuma quite a bit. His air fireball is good, but it’s not THAT good, especially in a game like SvC.
The main problem with Akuma is his really bad defense. That matters A LOT in SvC since so many characters have insane damage options. Akuma can do all the fancy mixups and chip that he wants, and he’ll still die in 2 combos or less depending on the character.
Mr. Karate is just really solid. He’s not really top-tier, but I don’t see how he’s below Ryu and Akuma. Kyokugen KoHou is really buff anti-air. Shoran Kyaku is a really good command grab. His ground fireball covers better space than Hadoukens as it is more likely to catch people out of jumping frames. Hien Shippu Kyaku is just beastly and his Exceed does 60% and has excellent invincibility.
Are we really talking about the same Earthquake?
The only normal he needs is standing D, and it gets the job done. Occasionally you may need standing B, C, or throw.
If you’re fighting an Earthquake that isn’t safe, then you’re not fighting somebody who knows what they’re doing with Earthquake.
I don’t see how EQ is less than A-tier, especially in non-boss SvC.
Finally people caring about this game. All the in-depth talk is great.
This game was awesome after I had bought the first SNK vs Capcom.
I also forgot to mention that Mr. Karate has one of the very best defense ratings in the game. That goes a long way to making him the best shoto. The only thing he doesn’t have on Ryu and Akuma are braindead ways to convert random jabs or crouching Bs into really big damage.
I don’t think Kyokugen KoHou combos from light attacks, but it’s been quite a while since I played so I may be wrong.
Mr.karate is a good character for sure, I don’t know if his combo’s are as reliabe as the other shoto’s but he’s still pretty damn good. IMO, my personal tier listing would go “Top,Upper,High and mid” (A,A-,B,C) as I dont feel there is any real low tiers or non-viable characters in the game.
All right. Its wonderful we’ve got some nice discussion going; good to see this thread going somewhere.
Orochi Iori is directly next to regular Iori in defense ratings. He takes more or less normal damage so I don’t know what you mean, here?
BTW I’m pretty certain qcfx4 is not meterless. Its like 1/2 bar requirement.
Fire twirl isn’t at all safe or hard to punish; even when I was forced to use my shitty xbox version and couldn’t do GCFS as I would like (or commands for that matter) just about anyone’s 5C/5D/quick activating super punished it pretty easily. I do agree it crosses up well and it makes a funky anti-air.
But Tier lists are based on high level play of characters, not some Akuma players that make mistakes all over the place. So in the best scenario, one would be using teleports to escape and possibly punish corner traps, air fireballs to bait AA attempts and jump-ins. His mobility is better than Mr. Karate as well and the deal breaker to me is normals and the shotos are better across the board, particularly db+B which is surprisingly strong against GCFS in this game. Their ability to punish and combo is higher as well, which naturally affects tier ratings…being able to convert damage off of fast and sometimes random hit confirms is pretty important. Shoran Kyaku is a good command grab only if your opponent respects you enough to not hit you out of it…and it is very easy to hit him out of it or avoid it.
I never said he was horrible but I can’t possibly see how he’s not worse than the others except for Ryo whom I would place him above. I did already emphasis his high defense modifier in my previous post also.
I don’t know but I’m pretty willing to admit I could be mistaken on this. Like, how would you describe a “good” earthquake and his gameplan? What common moves would he use, and in what senarios? How would he escape being crossed-up, outzoned and bait GCFS?
From what I’ve played after you get past that ‘shock factor’ and his fart set-ups he’s really not that threatening but at the same time I won’t be stupid and say I’ve fought the best world players. So, looking forward to hear about these.
The only things that combo from light attacks are the DPs, uppercut super (236X2+K), the command overheads/attacks. Following the universal rule almost everyone can combo a special after a cancelable command attack that should open up more options however.
BTW, this thread has got me hyped to start playing again. Like a lot of things, I sort of stopped a bit to focus on Melty but now I feel like getting back into it again.
Gonna hit practice mode and see if I can get the SNK heads over here to record soon. Looking forward to hearing your reply about Earthquake Shiki, because I think I may just start playing him to see if I can get up some good footage (don’t see any from the asian players or any good footage from anyone else on YT so far).
What are the differences between the Xbox/PS2 versions?
Basically Xbox looks great but (at least to me using the pad, perhaps stick players did/did not have this problem) but the command inputs were off and messed up. I couldn’t pull of rekkas with consistently and with a good deal of effort, despite doing them for years. GCFS was really hard for me to do for some reason, etc. This was regardless of whether I put the option for inputs on Arcade or Console.
Also they changed a few move properties whereas the PS2 version isn’t. And or course Xbox has online (not like that matters now though).
re: regular Iori
I meant in the tiers, those that I’ve seen usually put the 2 Ioris in the same rank. I think both are pretty buff in this game.
O. Iori has the better Exceed. I’ve seen normal Iori’s land once or twice, but usually the players simply bait it out, and throw him when he tries it (lol Counter ultra). The new grab super was great I guess.
4neqs, you said to me on YT that people over there still play SvC or you have a small following for it over there? I was wondering if you could record some footage, possibly? It’d be nice to have someone from around her besides me upload stuff. =)
About Ioris: Generally regular does more damage, with Rekkas and the Ya Otome while the Orochi does less but can combo easier since his lights chain (ie. like KOFXI), also his dash and mobility is very, very annoying and his normal dash actually goes under midlevel projectiles. His version of Ya Otome has a ton of invincibility and just plain goes right through a lot of stuff but thank god its just as unsafe on block as regular’s. Also unlike the CvS2 version he has scum gale just like regular version so cross-up kick ~ scum scale is still there. And he takes decent damage, too. The final thing is of course GCFS baiting in that he is so fast it won’t be happening very much…I actually think its better to look for punishes normally than with GCFS! I’m not disagreeing with you though, just saying.
Yeah, there were tourneys here from years past iirc. I’ll see if I can contact the regulars and ask them about footage.