The box version has harsh imputs but then again I was uing the xbox d-pad lol. Anyhow, coming back to this game I realize that from the 24 characters (hidden characters dont exist in competitive play IMO) the game is rather decent in terms of it’s balance. I don’t know of the exact match-up’s, but from the time I played it didn’t really feel like any of the regular 24 characters hand any overwhealming advantage to the point where the game was ruined.
P.S
When you guys record the games, just use the regular cast. I don’t think the hidden characters should be viable for competitive play so just stick with the regular dudes.
my buddy and i still play online on kaillera. if you guys want i can give you the rom and the emulator so we can play online. i would like to play some of you and show you that tier list doesnt really matter if you know how to play.
hi emil waves hand. still gay and emo? yea i came a very long way from the last time you played me, especially from playing Age in that game. Though we quit playing years ago and just recently started playing again.
Like I said, I don’t remember that much about Mai except her Fire Twirl super and DP+P being very annoying. I remember people being pretty solid with her in the arcades (people actually did really play this game at my arcade for a few months). I remember even my first big tournament at my arcade, close to 80-100 people, when VA and NY came down and Justin Wong had like a 60 game win streak in SvC Chaos using Terry or Kim. He would be playing casual matches in between Marvel and 3rd Strike matches, rack up a win streak and then give up the sticks and play a tourney match, and then come back rack up another streak, repeat.
But I digress.
The lack of combo ability is the only thing that doesn’t put him a notch above Ryu/Akuma, but he’s definitely not worse.
If anything, he’s able to play a more traditional shoto game than even Ryu, perhaps even turtle style. I don’t think his mobility is a problem at all when he doesn’t even have to move in order to beat you.
SvC is a game where zoning is just as important as rushdown, and Mr. Karate controls the screen far better than Akuma does.
Also no, the point of tier listing is to assume high level play…but it* isn’t* to assume that “you won’t make mistakes” or “you won’t get hit”–quite the opposite in fact. As such, HP or defense SHOULD be taken into account of the character.
After re-reading Kao Megura’s FAQ it confirms that Akuma not only has bad defense, but that he has the absolute worst defense in the game. Even worse than Choi or any of the secret characters.
Thus the point is that the Akuma doesn’t even need to make “mistakes all over the place”, he only needs to make 1 or 2 in order to give up the round.
First off, if you’re able to consistently crossup Earthquake then, like I said, you’re not facing anybody who knows what they’re doing with Earthquake. All of his supers kill 99% of jump-ins.
His main problem is his lack of damage off anything but his supers, and but there are very, very few characters who can out-run or out-zone him, and most of those are boss characters.
His whole gameplan is to set-up the fart move and then react to what you do in response to it, be it block, jump, GCFS, or whatever. Thus at the start of the match, the goal is to achieve the knockdown or throw that will allow you to set-up his traps, and to build meter.
Bad Earthquakes will get impatient against smart or more defensive players who refuse to jump or play along with the traps. Even still, EQ has a few options–I’ve won a lot of matches even with the majority of my damage coming through chipping.
I would rather play matches than explain, but EQ is a prime example of a zoning character mixed with runaway and it’s much easier to show.
Unfortunately the console versions’ controls are really fucked up like the PS2 KOF 2002. Maybe I’ll start playing online, however as I work 7 nights a week currently I don’t expect to have too much time to play.
On the topic of underated characters, I feel vega/bison/rog are greatly under appreciated when it comes to competitive play. They don’t play to the strengths that they may have in previous incarnations, but I certainly wouldn’t say they are useless or worthless.
I disagree, akuma has a very explosive offense and incredible mix-up game. The damage potential off his mix-up’s are enough to secure him a higher ranking then any other shoto’s in the game. He has good zoning options, good rushdowns and incredible combo ability. Add that to a dangerous mix-up game with high damage potential and you have the recipe of the top tier. He can also play a bit to a runaway type with his fast teleports and movement, he also has incredible air control off his air-tatsu and air-hadukens which just extend his control over rushing down and running away. Sure he has low defense, but I think its similar to the situation with Seth in SF4…low heatlh but devasting options.
Mr.karate is just the definition of a solid character, no real faults and lots of strong points to his game. The only real issue with him is that he doesn’t trully excel in any area’s to the extent that he dominates or overwhealms. He is similar to ken in 3s, just a very solid character with every base covered with no holes to exploit.
I’d say the simple fact many characters can simply duck Mr. Karate’s fireballs puts a big dent in his zoning game; you can’t do that to the other shoto’s, even Ryo.
Karate is solid, and just like Evo says, he does not have any tools that allow him to dominate or excel. I wouldn’t place him above other shots simply because of the higher defense modifier. And its not like his zoning game is better than other non-boss characters, either.
No, they’re pretty worthless. Boxer actually has a little potential, but Claw and Dictator are just awful.
Even from the normal character roster, there are plenty of characters who have better mixups and damage potential than Akuma. How does that make him top? Especially when a lot of those characters don’t lose 40% from basic combos.
The key difference being that GCFS does not exist in SF4. Focus attacks are nowhere near as abusable.
Shiki, I’m def holding out on Earthquake and what he can do; its just to me he seems really gimmicky and past that stuff he doesn’t seem to useful. Like I said, I would really appreciate some footage on him. In the meantime when I get the bootdisc back from my crew I’m gonna start learning him and see if I can even prove myself wrong on this matter (as I very well could be).
And yeah, Dictator and Claw are pretty ass. Rog has some interesting things that could be squeezed out a bit. My main beef is that in usual games his charge punches (save for the low version) are at least neutral on block and push the opponent away. This is true in SvC but remember there’s GCFS.
When I think awful and worthless, I think 3s sean…and I really wouldn’t consider vega or bison anywhere neat that to be perfectly honest. Vega and bison are not top tier material, but they are viable and can be played even if they are at a massive disadvantage. As someone who tends to gravitate towards low tiers I personally think vega and bison are not that bad when compared to other low tiers in other games…they lose more then they win but thats just the nature of low tiers.
I think akuma has 1 of the better mix-up games, and he has variety which is key. Low defense does nto instantly mean garbage, especially someone like akuma who has to many options.
I think there tends to be this overhype in terms of GCFS’s effect on the game, most people see it as a negative that stalls offense but I dont really mind it. It’s a good defensive tool much like parrying in 3s (which oddly enough is criticized for the same reasons lol) but I don’t think it negates attacks nor subverts SVC into a highly defensive game where offensive is punished and defensive is disproportionally rewarded.
This I do agree with. And what’s interesting was I was making this exact same correlation between 3S and SvC. I’m no high level 3S player but to me the systems have that same flaw in that a lot of things are unsafe due to these mechanics. Personally I can’t help but think that if SvC is broken in this regard than so is 3S. I mean 3S not only has parries that cost no meter (and in fact reward you) but also pause the enemies action so you can follow up. And unlike GCFS, it can be performed in the air! AND there is Red parrying?
GCFS does at least cost around a stock of meter so to truly abuse it you need to time which attack to step through correctly and build meter to keep it an option. Also it CAN be baited. SvC is hardly defensive in that regard since to abuse this mechanic you have to build meter, which in SvC’s system which is closer to KOF than anything requires one to be aggressive. Hell even throws cause you to lose 1/4 meter for whiffing. Blocking attacks doesn’t build much meter, if at all if I recall.
Exactly true, 3s parries are costless and can work in any circumstances while GCFS are situational and require meter. Parries are far more featured in high level competiton then GCFS by far, and as u pointed out parries literally stall the oponents movements whilst GCFS only recover from block stun.
I never found GCFS to break the flow of offense or ever make me feel like intiating attacks was useless. Unlike CVS2 or SF4, I never felt like trying to attack was a mistake lol.
Parrying can punish anything on any given circumstance (air,ground) and you can parry off a guard (red parry). Granted, red parrying has incredibly tight timing but it’s still a option regardless. The most important thing to keep in mind is that parrying unlike GCFS is costless and stalls the animation. GCDS only eliminates block stun and it cost meter. GCFS is not a featured in high level comptitive play as parrying is, Im not saying it isn’t goood but it’s not breaking the game either.
dude theres very few things unpunishable by gcfs in this game. even super deep jumpins or jabs can be punished with at least gcfs > throw. unlike parry, there is no risk in trying to punish with it as soon as you get half a bar.
The rationalization here is abit depressing, we have something that cost meter and only works on the ground vs something that stalls the attack of the opponent in any situayion and cost no meter. The game can hardly be described as defense which would be the case if GCFS’s are nearly as dominated as people here are claiming. It’s good…but its not making the game slow or making attacks worthless.
No, you’re misunderstanding Rougeyoshi and Emil. And they’re right. They’re saying that basically when you have the meter for GCFS pretty much everything outside of air-air, light/very quick recovery attacks and projectiles from 3/4’s screen or more become massively unsafe and risky.
Like I said, you can bait them but its more dash length dependent and what options your characters has that can be buffered in blockstrings. And of course, these affect which characters on the tier list besides the usual criteria for fighting games.
The only thing I disagree with is the GCFS XX throw that RY said, and that’s because throw is ass in this game, not to mention whiffing makes you lose meter. I wouldn’t waste a GCFS on a throw attempt; I’d attack.
Some people do use GCFS throw if they’re close enough. I guess it’s done because it’s lazier/easier. GCFS-command throw is pretty good in this game IMO, one of the reasons why Tessa is high tier.
Found old grainy camphone stuff of a few casuals here. Still talking to old/new KOF local yokels on Facebook with regards to some old tourney footage.
