See I don’t get that. Tron alone does not beat MSP; although you can say it makes a bad match-up because MSP’s purpose is to get in and abuse Psylocke. But you’re not looking at the entire match-up. Say whoever’s on point (mags/storm) realizes that Tron is making trouble. They can play smart, bait the assist, use Storm hurricane instead, switch tron in, etc. Having Tron can make the match-up difficult but its not exactly counter picking MSP; they still I have lots of options. Also tron isn’t invincible, so just as she comes out she can be beaten by another assist.
What I mean by your example doesn’t make sense is that God Tier is God Tier because they do everything Low tier does better. Saying they can use the same tools doesn’t make the game “better” broken, its still broken, all the characters have access to the same tools and the tiers don’t change. If you’re point is the system is more creative and you can do more with it, than yeah that’s true. Its the only I reason I play.
As for you saying Geese/Zero/Orochi/whoever play the same and they’re unbeatable, I don’t agree. I also don’t see how they play the same. Its similar to the 3S discussion in the lounge in that the parry is universal and all characters benefit from it but the top tier benefit the best. This is true in SvC, but at the same time I think its better for the low tier to have it than without.
This game…it really is kinda hard to hate. It fell just short of being good (if it had been just a little longer in production, REAL production, not development hell), and there’s some fun cheesy stuff in there, but I wouldn’t play it for anything other than a laugh.
The aesthetic presentation was gorgeous, the mechanics were just all over the place. Putting aside the whole issue of GCFS, hit detection was all over the place, moves whiffed absolutely inexplicably at weird ranges, and the charge system sucked no less than six flavors of dick. (One of which was mule, for certain.) Playing Vega/Bison was like shotgunning bleach in SvC. Shadaloo deserves better.
Guile’s near-nonexistent charge time on Sonic Boom was pretty hilarious, as was Chun-Li and her, uh, everything.
I’d be tempted to learn the game if I could ever find a properly wired SvC cabinet. As early as 3-4 years ago every damn hole-in-the-wall Orlando arcade had SvC (one of them even had two), and the only one on which the buttons were ever wired properly was the first one I ever played on God knows how long ago. (RIP Fashion Square Mall arcade, as mall arcades go you did not suck dick.)
They have different movesets but all have the same goal. As a matter of fact, anyone in the game has the same goal. This is what you do. turtle, build meter, turtle, wait for one to attack, GCFS, win. Seriously, if you’re doing anything more than that, then you’re ding way more than you need to. So if it is someone like Guile vs Geese. Geese can build meter, run away, RTSD, do meterless combos, and with meter, do an infinite. What options does guile has, and how is he even using the system at all. Sure in 3s, low tier can use the system less effectively than top tier. In chaos they can’t use the system at all. If you are Geese and you are losing to Hugo, then you are just a stupid player bottomline. There is prettymuch no reason you shold ever lose such a matchup.
Overall, that’s about all SVC turns into. A massive meter building, turtle fest. And the only difference is that top tier does it better than anyone else. And it’s not just they do it a little better than everyone else, not even twice as good as anyone else. They do it 100% better than anyone else.
I mean, I’m not going to hate your for hating this game. I have a friend who loves this game. But you’re going to have to deal with the reality that people aren’t playing this game because they are not uninformed about it. Back when I joined SRK, there was more than enough discussion about it. It’s not that people didn’t give this game a chance. On the contrary, people really wanted this game to be good. I wanted this game to be good. It’s just not a competitive game, no matter how you cover your ears and pretend that it is. It’s not. It’s fun (I don’t have fun with it), and maybe that’s how you should be looking at it. There is no plausible way to justify it’s competitiveness without being stupidly biased, or just falling into intellectual dishonesty.
I refuse to play SvC Chaos competively, as there are too many broken characters/tactics.
Also, some Capcom characters were really well made. I feel SNK did a better job of translating Capcom’s characters than Capcom did in CvS with SNK characters.
But anyway SvC is a lot of fun in casual matches and I feel SNK should release a (re-balanced)remake for XBL, PSN, or WiiWare. (assuming the ‘netcode’ is playable)
A good remake would be a popular game on these Live arcade networks.
The only thing I disagree with is turtling. No, that is NOT how high level play in SvC works out and that’s simply put because you build meter better doing just the opposite. Its just impossible. You also make these blanket statements like every good character has an infinite. This isn’t Samurai Spirits III. And this goes for a ton of fighting games; where you build meter and use them to achieve the same goal. Did you forget this was a fighting game? The better characters are better because they take advantage of the system better. This is nothing new; we already know.
BTW your last paragraph is just redundant. You know why? Because I and many others have said EXACTLY what you just said; the game’s flawed. Check. There’s problems at the competitive level. check. We play it because we like the system and have fun with it in spite of its flaws. Check. We look at it more as a casual diversion than a serious one. Check. I notice you’ve done that with just about every post you’ve replied to me in this thread. You quote me, but you go off on a tangent and argue things that no-one talked about to begin with. No-one is blind to the game’s flaws; you’re totally missing the point which is simple: Its fun to certain people. You don’t get that (or perhaps refuse to) but that’s not my problem. You are arguing points to yourself, by yourself.
Pretty much these. This is what I’ve been saying from the beginning.
If you want to play the game for fun, then I can’t argue with your taste. I personally have never found the game particularly fun (CFE is a better crappy fun game). In terms of turtling. Let me give you a scenario. Geese has full max meter. Do you rush him down? I would like to see how that works out. If he blocks you (which is easy), then he gets a free GCFS, and we all know what happens after that. Actually if Geese wanted to, he can rush you down indefinitely. You could GCFS him as a weaker character, but of course he has ways of stopping it. One is to bait it, then do a super. consdering you have like 8 opporunties to do a super on a full max bar, he can kill you totally by baiting GCFS attempts. So you’re better at having him eat your guard bar. And if try to GC him to knock him back, you waste guard meter, and he’s right back on that ass again.
Seriously, you have NEVER played against a good Geese, or against one who abuse all of the blatant cheapness. There are SO many things Geese can do to you for free. And yeah, if Geese have full meter, you’re better off turtling him. you sure as hell aren’t going to rush him down, unless you’re ROB Iori or Zero. But overall, the game just comes down to who’ll get who in an infinite or some stupidly high damage combo based on a setup from just attacking someone. Yes, this game gives you no incentive to attacks someone. I mean you could, but it’s just a stupid idea. You get free combos off of GCFS, and any other setup is completely unsafe. There really no point in doing anything but waiting for your opponent to do something.
You’re theory fighting again. I’ve fought PLENTY of good Geeses. Your argument falls apart because of several reasons:
Not every attack is GCFS punishable.
Why must I attack? Why can’t I grab?
Turtling is worse than looking for an opening, because when he’s in MAX mode he gets a repukken pressure string in the corner. So he starts to lock you down. No, you go on the offensive. You obviously can’t start too many fireball wars with him either since double repukken is a two-hit projectile. If he starts making the mistake of using Repukken blockstrings, you can GCFS through those outside of the corner.
Not every character has the same zoning, damage, movement options
GCFS still takes meter, even in max mode
Its a really dumb character, but you seem to be unaware of some options. I could make the same blanket statement about Goenitz and say every match-up is pointless due to tornados. Nevermind people like Gouki and Shiki have teleport; Guile can fit in Sonic Booms between the gaps while building meter and so on.
LOL, you’re talking theory dude. I really wish my old chum Antonio could have met you and broke out his Geese. you aren’t doing none of those things to a good Geese man. I’m not theorizing anything. Trust me, back in 2006 when I use to play this game at the arcade. Yes AT the arcade. Not on XBL. Not on GGPO or 2DF. No back when I played it at the ARCADE, this is what has happened to me personally. I’ve brainstormed numerous ways to beat Geese or Zero (PM Pokchop who used him and got to be really cheap with him). Or ask players like Norm the Storm, who did retarded lockdowns with Mars People, and could slaughter you with ROB Iori. Or my fiend Jarvis who could rape your guard bar with violent Ken. Overall, I’ve played with people who took this game seriuously. I’ve seen first hand the retarded stuff in this game. And guess what, I saw it years ago. I mean, you can rant, and intellectualize all you want. But at the end of the day you’re only playing catchup.
I’m done, dude. I mean, its like totally impossible some characters might have a good match-up against God Tier, its just impossible. All characters move the same, act the same, perform the same. Its all Geese.
Here I thought we were talking about match-ups and how to get around certain strats and we’ve regressed full circle again. Good stuff.
I know you’re TRYING to be sarcastic. But you’re statement couldn’t be anymore true. I do realize that I do present a negative vibe to this thread. But in reality it sucks that SVC did turn out the way that it did. The game had a lot of potential. And for casual matchs, I guess it’s okay every once in awhile. I’m just a very rigid player. And I hate the risk/reward in this game. To me it’s really annoying, and it makes it very hard to see this game as anything but a total mess. I understand people enjoy games for different reasons. But I hate that there is very little I can do safely in this game.
Though I have to say I do somewat like Dhalsim in this game. He’s really fun to play with, and his drills are really annoying.
Its better if its not taken very seriously. I don’t play the game too much now as the scene I had back in Germany (Wiesbaden) is gone and I’m kinda weak at it now. Commands don’t come out like I want to even in the PS2 version, I can’t seem to use my Guard step on point like before unless I use the command version, keep getting cyber elves when I don’t want them, etc but its an interesting diversion and good to mess around with.
If you don’t like it that’s perfectly fine, but isn’t what the thread is supposed to be about.
I had a shit ton of fun with SvC back in the day. My university got this thing on release day and I played it HELLA. Guile was/is awesome. We have a gameworks up here and you still find random mexicans and koreans going at it.
Ah hit detection hit detection how did i hate thee its actually one of the first things i noticed in the game.
Also i think almost all charge times characters except for vega were like guile in his sonic boom. I also loved the fact that ryu uppercut was the only one were you had to input the motion without going over which I thought was weird i’m sure somebody else noticed that as well.
Anyway i agree with you post in a nutshell maybe if they didn’t worry about endings the game could have done better, but i like the pre-battle quotes those were badass those are a keeper
Big guilty pleasure. It’s not very good, but it’s infinitely amusing. Plus it has Zero, Violent Ken, a bad ass Mr. Karate, and that demon from Gargoyle’s Quest/Ghosts 'n Goblins. The dialog as the start of the match is great, as is the opening intro.
That’s why I don’t understand why competitive players didn’t just ban the hidden characters. It’s not like Akuma ruins ST or Gill ruins 3S. People just go “Those guys are retarded. Not allowed”. Done. Yes, Chun and Guile are good. And, it’s been a long time, but if I remember correctly I think Tessa has an infinite cross-up thing. Still, those characters can be beaten and that tactic can be avoided. I mean, it’s not perfect. What fighting game is? But sans hidden characters I think it’s reasonably decent.
Every fighter has flaws, some are more visable and frequent then others but that still doesn’t mean a game can’t be enjoyable or fun to play. SVC might not be a good game in the conventional sense, but it’s a fun game that has competitive value to a degree. If the hidden characters are banned, and certain tactics are removed I think the game would have incredible viability as a fighter. I personally enjoy SVC over CVS2,SF4 and even some KOF tittles.
tessa was one of the good things about the game as were the secret characters. They were cool characters to get except riot iori they just weren’t presented well, but i guess when they wanted secret characters they wanted them gods lol
I was just looking for this for XBox cause it’s backwards compatible I’ll look into doing the infinites. Any game where Hugo can juggle someone forever is OK in my book.
I remember playing this in an arcade when I first got into fighters and I couldn’t do shit, it was so different to me but I kept trying anyway, then got it for like $2 at Game Crazy.
I’ll look into doing the infinites. Any game where Hugo can juggle someone forever is OK in my book.