The problem is that there’s skill difference even among the very best players. Match-up charts will always be subject to debate.
For instance, I would attribute DGV’s impression that Ryu vs Claw is fair to the fact that there aren’t dedicated Claw players in California.
I wish we could get input about old characters. I do believe O.Sagat is retarded, but it is also true that N.Sagat has been nerfed too much.
Speaking of Sagat, it has called my attention how close Aniken and Mattsun’s views are, but against Sagat, Honda and Hawk. Both have lots of experience against Yaya and Yondaime, and still Aniken thinks it’s pretty fair, while Mattsun thinks Sagat has some noticeable advantage. Against Hawk, Aniken thinks Ken loses, while Mattsun thinks Hawk loses. And Aniken believes Ken has the advantage against Honda, but he does not believe it’s lopsided, as in Mattsun’s views.
I feel Ken vs T.Hawk is close to playing as Ryu, where Ken lacks the range on close Fierce and the usefulness of st.RH (close and far), but gets a long-range poke (RH), a much faster and reliable Jab SRK, and Fierce SRK for him to use instead of sac-throws. Ken also lacks the invulnerability on tatsus, but that doesn’t seem necessarily a disadvantage, since it will instantly reset against corner ticks, denying the recovery - for Hawk to punish or grab on landing - or pushing him away due to the invisible reel force. One advantage Hawk has is that even Mattsun and Aniken eventually mess-up kicks due to the excessive input commands, which of course give Hawk opportunities he shouldn’t have otherwise. Ken also lacks the speed and knockdown on the hadous, but as he has better tools to keep Hawk grounded I believe this is mostly fair. Ryu has to stablish a solid ground and (anti-)air control before using his (better) hadous against Hawk, but Ken has the better tools to do so.
BTW, there was an error on my part for the Shotosallday O. Sagat vs Dhalsim rankings, which I’ve corrected. Also, shotosallday noticed an inconsistency with his O.Ryu and O.Ken rankings vs each other and he sent me a new ranking to make that consistent. You may need to refresh the page to see the updated image chart.
For all the contributors, if you see any errors, please let me know.
Reminds me of a recent match I had, I’ve had double KO ties before, where both players lose, But I the match I had recently, was 2 double KOs before the Final round, and I was like “whoa, wait, so if it goes to final round I get a free win?” (cuz it’s always sudden death, I did not know that)
So basically if you have 2 double KOs before final round, it doensn’t matter whoever won the 3rd round. cuz the person who lost gets a free one when you get to final round.
the rest of the Japanese players seem to agree with him though! that’s really interesting about these tier lists. like in the Chun example we used earlier, both Otochun and the set of other Japanese players all seem in agreement that Chun is solid across every matchup. In Cammy’s case, Nakamura seems to rate Cammy a lot higher than the people who are playing against her.
If i’m not mistaken, O. Hawk is bottom tier on this tier list- he is on 17th, with only N. Hawk and Gief being worse.
But isn’t O. Hawk supposed to be mid-high tier ?
Reposting from a facebook thread comment, here is a list with the averages of the three charts combined with the numbers rounded up (no point five values) http://goo.gl/ZmryU
I found that choice odd as well. Deejay vs. OSagat is 5 - 5 at best. In my opinion it’s 6 - 4 in OSagats favor, but the match up is very volatile. The one that really stomped me was Ito putting Sim vs. DeeJay at 5 - 5. I wonder if he knows something that the rest of the DeeJay players don’t.
I’m curious about that as well. Most players tend to peg that at Sim’s favor, either 7-3 or 6-4. He must have an unnatural ability to spot limbs and trade or beat them with elbows.
Interesting that on Honda vs Dhalsim, Honda players say it’s in Sim’s favour, while Sim players call the match in Honda’s favour.
And I don’t know if it is a mistake - it might be, but CVital called this match 8-2 Honda’s favour ??
