To your first paragraph: sighs…ok man whatever, its just that easy! Its free for Vega!:rolleyes:
To your second: Who are YOU to tell me what I do and dont know? Im 24 Guy, and I’ve been playing SF since WW came out so that was a dumb comment. Picking up Technicalities in games is second nature to me but whatever Im not going to get into all that but that comment holds no relevance to what were talking about.
To the third: Dunno what your getting at here and I can respond to that statement but I wont. Thats what you feel…hey more power to ya man!
Basic breakdown of all the Claw vs. Shoto matches I saw in Japan:
Shoto’s fireballs get nullified by barrage of cr.Strong. Claw uses huge reach advantage to continue to poke the hell out of Shoto, beating every normal Shoto has. Shoto attempts and fails psychic DP, eats more damage. Shoto sees Claw doesn’t have Flip Kicks charge, tries to jump at him, eats st.RH or jump straight up Fierce. More Claw zoning (read: complete ground control). Shoto gets baited by fake wall dive, whiffs DP, gets knocked down by cr.RH. Claw does wall dive shenanigans the rest of the round.
I would say that match is about 7-3 Claw. Shotos really have a tough time against his huge reach advantage and insane speed. And like all characters, Shotos get wrecked by wall dive shenanigans.
It’s not a hopeless fight, but Claw clearly has everything in his favor. If anyone thinks Shotos can actually fight that match, I’d be interested to hear what you think they can do.
-Nicholai!
P.S.: I dunno why people always tend mention how long they’ve been playing, as if that determines how good you are or how much you know about a game. One month of world-class competition will produce a better player than 15 years of scrubby competition.
Losing to a high quality Ryu player doesn’t mean that Vega doesn’t have an incredible advantage in the fight. It means that you lost a severely mismatched fight and you suck.
Like JeRon, I’ve been playing since WW and I’m about his age (23), but I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not a top player.
@JeRon, even though I still disagree with your assessment (and apparently some other people do too), I didn’t mean to get so personal with the arguments, so I apologize and hope that this thread can get back on track instead of just debating one matchup :pleased:
Yes, let’s not make a mountain out of a molehill with a matchup no one cares about! Let’s at least discuss an important one, like…say, Cammy vs. Blanka. Who’s first to weigh in?
but anyways, dont shotos sweep go over vegas c.mp? hurricane kicks seems to work okay to get in.
about sf2:ae:
you ranked ce claw vega as the best vega and i’m wondering why? i use ce vega but i think ST vega is better overall. it seems to me that the only thing ce vega has over ST vega is a much bigger throw range and his throws does an assload. (ce izuna drop does more than a SPD). and also maybe standing mp as anti air.
but ST vega has a much much much better wall dive, ce vegas claw dive doesnt even knock down on hit, and st vega’s claw dive has a huge speed boost. st vega also has that flip kick which makes it even harder to get in on him. then theres the backflips, he has 2 of them. ce vega has one and its done with a back dash command, thus he loses his charge every time he does it although i think you still can charge in time after the backflip ends.
Those Japanese players love their psychic DPs. I played AE at Sega World and a couple places around Shinjuku, everyone loves to throw out psychic DPs all the time. When I was at Sega World it was my first time playing on a Japanese controller and I literally could not do anything really, so my main strategy was wait for a player to miss a psychic DP and then sweep them. Not that that strategy really worked well, but it was surprisingly effective. (On the controllers I played on the only reliable special move I could do was sonic booms. No flash kicks, no fireballs, no DPs. It was pretty sad)
Anyway, Vega does prety well against Shotos. Fireballs become pretty worthless. Even if you do random DP against a low strong, you are too far away to try for a crossup, so you can’t really take good avantage of it. The best bet is to corner Vega, that way you can hit him out of wall dives and Ryu can use his jumping strong to good effect, and it makes a bit easier to close space on him. But still not easy. And a strategy based on random short hurricanes is going to have pretty limited results.
As far as Blanka vs. Cammy goes… Pretty even match overall. Cammy is one of those characters that has very few easy matches, as is Blanka.
im no st expert, but i kinda agree with jeron here, don’t all the highest lvl shoto players have “ume” like footsies and psychic dp’s anyway? outside of all the specific matchup stuff, i don’t think anyone here can deny that vega has probs with people that are psychic or take risks in any game (not just shotos)
but of course, i’d take nki’s word for it, cause im only average at this game, and besides, he played the best st comp for about a year but damn…nick, im sure you saw this specific matchup a lot at more, didnt you?
EDIT: my question was answered above by NKI, doh :sad:
Ok, this Ryu vs Vega thing is funny. First off, on paper sure…Vega beats the living shit out of ryu…he can’t do anything. You bring that shit into the playing field to a wise Ryu that knows how to fight vega well. First off, you don’t throw fireballs. You have to sit there and wait for the window of opportunity just like how ryu fights dhalsim. One knock down is all ryu needs and he is on vega like fuckin white on rice. First off, if the vega dares mis time a cr. strong he is eating or forced to block a fast as hell red fireball. Ryu banks on catching the vega repeat certain poke patterns. He can pyschic uppercut all he wants, cause worst he is gonna take is a throw that he can tech or a low forward, strong combo. Ryu can’t really do much but be patient. Its obviously not in his favor, but it can quickly change to his once he knocks vega down and starts doing cross up spin kick tricks and tic throws. Vega has to play on constant reaction the whole match, cause one slip up and ryu is fucking his day up. Ken in my opinion obviously has an easier time with the better air spin kick and an insane tic throw trap. You can never under estimate either though…it’s not an easy win for vega at high level play.
Two hot matches:
hame_2234.lzh - Inoki (Ryu) vs. Mattsun (Ken)
Mattsun is one of the most entertaining ST players out there. Even a small dose like this is fun.
hame_2264.lzh - KenO(akaGian?)(Dhalsim) vs. YuuVega (MBison)
I think these are rips from the insanity DVD:
hame_2265.lzh - XMania Gaiden matches
hame_2273.lzh - Combo exhibition
I don’t think anyone was saying that Vega can’t be played with skill, but let’s face it. You can random wall dive and mash C. MP all day and get a lot farther than you would with most chars.
As for 'Rog VS 'Sim. Headbutts can wreck 'sim’s kicks and go through his fireballs. Also great for when he tries to poke you on wake up.
This’ll make it so that he becomes hesitant to poke and this leaves you open to get some dash punches in.
Are you sure there’s no such thing as throw priority NKI?
I remember reading in more than one place that Chun and Vega’s throws beat out pretty much everyone elses at point blank. Like if both chars throw at the same time, their’s will usually win, and from my own experience, I get thrown a lot more by those chars than I do when fighting say Ryu, or Guile.
Characters like Honda and Blanka catch me in throws because of their huge range, but Vega and Chun seem to get their’s off because of something else.
There is no such thing as throw priority in ST. Chun and Vega walk very fast, that’s why it’s easier for them to surprise their opponents with a throw.
nohoho : yes it’s obviously a hack, but I never saw/played that one
I believe there is throw priority. If Blanka, or Chun li jump whiff and land right next to you…about 80% of the time They are going to get their throw off. Blanka has the most priority on a throw then any char in the game. Thats why he is so hard to tick throw. In that paticular situation it is not determined by distance either…he just has the more dominate throw then say if ryu did it. You can reverse that situation and have ryu jump at blanka and try to land throw, blanak will still win. Blanka,Sim, Honda, Chun and gief (not counting spd) have dominate throws and great throw distance. I believe DJ is in there category as well. Vega,Shotos, bison , guile, cammy, fei in mid tier. Then come the rest of the cast like rog, t-hawk, sagat.
I base it on the difficulty on trying to reverse a tick and from just landing from a jump from a whiff attack and trying to throw.
Thats just with my opinion on ST throws through my experience.
If there’s a question of throw priority existence, wouldn’t it seem logical to test it? There’s a very simple way of doing so and wouldn’t someone have thought to do so by now?
his fireball is fast, fat and has good recovery which makes it hard for most characters to escape its trap. since ST is one of the few games which a fireball is dominant, his fireballs are a threat long range and close
his knockdown game game is ultra buff
he has a move that negates pretty much everything with semi-risk (jab dp)
if that isnt enough, he has an invincible 50% move that has pretty much no risk, can be charged every 7 secs and comboed off his j.mp. (super fireball)
Pretty even match overall. Cammy is one of those characters that has very few easy matches, as is Blanka.