Personally I think Ken is much better against Vega.
All of Ryu’s benefits, faster fb, super fb, are useless against Vega because he can jump and hit shotos on reaction if they throw a fb because of his fast jump.
The only Shoto “trick” I know that works well on Vega is crossup air hk. Ryu can’t do shit after it, but Ken can always go into dp/walk up knee bash mixup (on hit or block), and I consider Knee bash games as a less ghetto Noogie trap with more options. Seeing as how dhalshim noogie trap works on Vega, I think Kneebash is pretty good too, but this is just theory fighter
Besides, Ken’s fierce DP is a lot more useful for stopping wall dive shenanigans with the little bit of extra range.
Either way I think its 6-4 Vega against Ken and probably 7-3 Vega against Ryu
So I’m a noob, and figured here would be the place to ask the questions. I didn’t figure out how to tech throws until like after this incident (and I’m still not clear on how it works). But I’m going through arcade mode, trying to practice my guile sonic boom traps. 4th round I get Zangief and I whiff a flash kicks at some point with full health. So Zangief comes over and does FP throw. Then he takes out 99% of my health with like 35 hits. I was shocked. The whole while I was trying to escape by mashing buttons, mostly just LK, LP, MK and MP. I was so shocked I had to bring it up here.
Is this even humanly possible? was the CPU mashing faster than humanly possible or was it my fault for mashing the wrong buttons?
When I do tech throws mashing either SP or FP I get out of 1 hit throws regularly. However if it’s a multi hitting mash throw (Sim noogies, Ken knees etc.) I can’t get out til like 3rd 4th hit. Yet I’ve seen people get out after the 1st and 2nd hit. Am I just not fast enough or is there a special technique to this?
I’ve said everything I care to about the topic, so shall we just agree to disagree? I’d rather deal with ST’s supers than with HF’s crazy dizzies, huge damage, and no tech-hitting; if you disagree, that’s fine.
Whoops! That should be [cr.Forward, st.Forward]. Sorry about that.
His cr.Forward is the same animation in ST, but in CE he recovers much faster, so he can do things like [cr.Forward, cr.Forward], or [cr.Forward, st.Forward].
If you’re forced to block it, no. However, on reaction to the super, Gief can use KKK lariat to beat it clean, and Boxer can use bull charge to beat it clean. (I think I remember getting Flash Kicked out of it too, but I could be wrong.) If you know it’s coming, everyone can punish it just by jumping straight up, then hitting her with whatever when you land. (She’ll probably be behind you.) Hawk gets free (backwards) 720 on her. But you have to be careful–if you just jump straight up at random, Chun gets free super on you (as you’re landing and can’t block), so only jump straight up if you know it’s coming.
The game ignores all input done during the super charge.
CE was released about 14 years ago, and no one has found a way around it yet…
Not humanly possible. The computer can do all sorts of crazy things, like standing Flash Kick, walk towards Psycho Crusher, canceling uncancelable moves, etc.
First I just want to clarify: “teching” a throw doesn’t apply to grabs, like Sim’s noogie, Ken’s knee bash, Boxer’s headbuts, etc. You can’t tech those like you can tech other throws (tosses), but you can mash out to take less hits. To answer your question, you can get out after only one hit if you just mash really fast and really well. You have to use the stick too (not just the buttons), and I usually just hit left and right as quickly as possible while mashing the buttons as fast as possible.
As far as Vega being easier to play than Honda and DJ…well those are also 2 easy chars. Vega can only turtle in a few matchups, like Vega vs. Zangief. Vega basically has four modes of operation:
1: Hide behind low strong and AA
2: Wall dive
3: Wait for opponent to do something like fireball and jump over while occasionally poking.
4: Actually take initiative and do something
4 is the one you rarely see. That’s why people think of Vega as a turtle char. Vega is a fairly reactive character. He doesn’t take it to you all that often.
Yeah… that’s what I thought as well… and if the numbers are right, it’s the same in CE. Unless we’re both wrong or there’s different stun or something…
ON mashable throws, if the person counter mashes your mash, can he sustain a better hit count?
like in cvs 2 if both players mash on a throw that has hits, you, can get the average number of hits and it’s a set number, but if only the player doing the throw mashes with both stick and buttons he can get the max hits, which is also a set number. And the same applies in reverse for the person getting throw.
Yes, you can mash to get a few extra hits, but it is not really worth it because for one thing it really doesn’t make much of a difference at all, and for another thing you want to maintain control of your character after the throw is finished. If you’re mashing and Sim lets go of the noogie, you might get something random and crazy (and highly punishable).
I dunno if I’d call it ownership or not, but Claw does quite well against shotos in ST.
Your telling me that Vega OWNS Hadu!!!..ok whatever and me being a top player or not has nothing to do with what were talking about.
Especially saying that Vega owns Shotos in CVS2 is ridiculous and I dont want to go to off topic but your way off here. A3/CVS/CVS2/ST/SVC In all these games Vega has shoto problems. He does ok…he can win but can also lose but on a consistent basis Vega will lose in the longrun. Your saying he owns shotos which is crazy.
Also I dont need to ask any WC player anything. I’ve played and had talks with Choi about Vega and Shotos in games if thats what your looking for.I’ve played Valle’s shotos in CVS. Myself, Justin and Eddie Lee are the hardcore Vega players of EC and even from back in the day Eddie was never able to really beat WC with Vega in games its just the character. If you wanted a concrete statement then there you go.
Hey if you think Vega beats them and if ppl agree with you what can I say…I guess I dont know what Im talking about then:rolleyes:
Since you’re the Vega player, tell me whats so hard about fighting Shotos. Fbs are useless against your char. Walldives retardation easily baits dps. Cr. strong/Slide shut down almost all Shoto normals. Where is this hard part of the fight? In CVS2, Vega’s only weakness to shotos (crossups) is negated because that fucker can walk fast enough to dodge most of them.
I’m going to say it right now, even as a EC person, EC players currently don’t know shit about ST or older SF games. First DSP trying to convince people that ST Vega is some technical masterpiece, and then you trying to tell us that CE Bison ISN’T broken when its general consensus that he is.
Maybe the reason that all these WC shotos beat EC vegas is because WC has played the game like 500 times longer than EC and knows the matchups a lot better. I’m sure if EC decided to steal some more Jap Vega knowledge and played for a little bit longer, the blatant mismatch would be much more apparent.
I don’t know about the other games but I believe in ST that Vega doesn’t outright “own” Shoto’s. Ive played that match up and seen enough of it to know it can go either way. Its not like when ever ryu or ken attacks they will get shut down by a normal from vega most of the time or that they will get baited in to dping everytime vega wall dives. Nothing is that concrete.
I knew you could link LP, but not d.MK. Is it a 1-frame link?