I disagree, due to the block stun, I blocked the first attack and my bro kept it up. I let go of back and I still continued to block. Unless he hesiates for a split second to try and get me to whiff a reversal in which he’ll counter and continue on.
I also agree that ST is not as balanced in terms of meter versus matchups. In agreeance in what Apoc was saying Hyper Fighting is the most balanced of the Street Fighter 2 series in terms of matchups. You can just build meter and kill someone off fear factor alone if you sit on it.
Yes, it is my opinion that AE is not fun. I’m not trying to convince you that AE is/isn’t fun; I’m trying to show you that CE Dic is broken, and AE shouldn’t be a tourney game.
…that’s the problem…there is no way around it. 
Not to sure if we’re talking about the same thing here, but for the record, CE Dic gets guaranteed guessing game after his Scissor Kicks are blocked. You can not DP, because you are still in block stun, so you must guess between throw or [cr.Forward, st.RH]. If you’re just talking about doing [Scissor Kicks, cr.Forward, st.Forward, repeat] over and over, then yeah, DP will beat that.
I totally agree that HF is more balanced than ST. Matches like Chun vs. Gief, Shotos vs. Honda, Honda vs. Hawk, etc are pretty unfair. That’s a legit complaint (character imbalance), but “supers are broken” is not a legit complaint.
Look at the top tier (O.Sagat, Boxer, Sim, Claw, possibly Dic). O.Sagat doesn’t even have meter; Sim’s super is good (even though he can’t do reversal super), but he would still be top tier without it; Claw’s super is practically useless. Only Boxer really relies on his super.
Now look at the rest of the cast…
Honda’s super and Blanka’s super are so awful they should almost never be used. Deejay’s and Guile’s are pretty much useless outside of combos. Cammy’s is all right, but that doesn’t stop her from being an awful character. Fei’s is so-so, but that is definitely not what makes him playable. Dic’s super is good, but in no way over-powered. Even with a super that does ~60%, Gief and Hawk are bottom tier.
The only three characters besides Boxer who really can use their supers are Ken, Ryu, and Chun, and none one of them can win matches using just the super. They’re really good moves, but they don’t win matches by themselves.
So out of the whole cast, only four non-bottom tier characters actually rely on their supers, only one of those characters is top tier, and none of those characters can win matches simply by doing [run and build meter, do super, repeat].
-Nicholai!
Ya too bad the thread got closed when it was about to get more interesting, oh well there will be topics like that for “discussion”.
I’m glad it’s closed. Once people started stating that the throw was worthless in 3s it was just like :rolleyes: give me a break you know.
Bottom line both are great games (ST and 3s), albeit very different, they both rock. If you like O.G. style mind games better, or vice versa, that’s personal preference, and nothing more.
People who bash ST in an ST only thread are RETARDS.
Nick, you do a great job of explaining to them why ST is one of the best games to play competitively, but responding to the haters only gives them more reasons to post again.
edit: I forgot to add that s-kill sucks donkey balls.
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just for the resord… i don’t think that works. Anyone?
Who are you to say that? Have you won any tournies in cali? You’re a nobody, you’re not from cali. Even if you’re right, you’re wrong, so there. Stupid canadians, go back to Canadia and fuck a penguin.
He was being dumb, but you’re just being retarded.
True for the most part, but occasionally something like Balrog’s (boxer) super can catch you off guard even if it was just done out of the blue.
And I agree with your Vega comments. While one certain can play him skillfully, mashing crouching MP, and wall dives gets you unbelievably far even with many skilled players. It’s hard to tell whether it’s going to cross up or not, and on the occasion that you’re in a position to counter, they end up going for the other dive move instead.
I saw Chikyuu get demolished with like 3 quick dives in a row in one match.
He’s just an unbelievably frustrating character to play against. MP beats half my pokes. Wall dives nail me randomly, I can’t do much to him on wake up, because he’ll nail a double flip kick on me, and if I ever do get in to throw, half the time his out-prioritizes mine. Many characters do have more range on their throws, but Vega walks so fast that the distance is closed very quickly, and if you’re anywhere but point blank on him, chances are he’s poking at away you instead.
So you see him coming in to throw you, and you throw a poke to push him away, he misses with his throw and throws out a claw swipe that out prioritizes anything you try to throw out afterword, and then starts moving in again, so you try to get the hell away, and he starts wall diving. It’s just a vicious circle.
I’m probably little more biased though because I’m a Dhalsim user. I really have no way of reliably beating his dive. Yoga blast works but you need to have seen the dive coming long before to get it off, and if he stops his dive short, you’ll get hit by the claw. Jumping FP works, but not all the time, jumping FK works to keep him from getting off the wall in the first place, but again this requires foresight, and if you guess wrong, you’re getting owned fast. So your only surefire option is teleporting really, but this can often put you in a bad spot after.
Where did that random hate come from…? CLOTH HAND is hella dope. :tup:
Which part? The fact that you get guaranteed guessing game, or the fact that you can combo [cr.Forward, st.RH]?
Two things.
First, about knocked down Claw…
If possible, cross-up him after knocking him down. He’ll lose his charge, so his only option becomes KKK or PPP flip, and those are hella risky, so he won’t do those. (He’ll just block the cross-up.) It is possible for Claw to keep the charge and do Flip Kicks the correct way (to counter a cross-up), but even the best Claw players can’t do that consistently…or at all really. I’ve only seen it a couple of times.
Secondly, there is no such thing as “throw priority” in ST. If you are attempting to tick throw and you are within the defender’s throw range, he gets a free throw on you (if he gets the reversal). If he doesn’t get the reversal, and you both do it on the exact same frame, it’s just random who gets the throw.
-Nicholai!
Meh, you know that is not what I’m saying. Throwing out totally random supers does not in itself make you unstoppable, no. However supers allow you to bait out moves and in general make plays where the risk/reward is totally off.
If I’m Balrog and I have meter, and I just made someone block a TAP, why not hesitate a half-second then throw out my super? The worst that can happen is that they block. Best case is they tried to do something like low forward and get nailed. The difference between that and HF is that the “mistake” the opponent is making is very small and totally out of scale with other mistakes.
Sure in HF you can take a ton of damage if you don’t block a sweep from the right range then don’t block a crossup, but that’s two major mistakes. Or if you throw a fireball with exactly the wrong timing and range. But if you opponent is guessing fireball and just jumping a DP will do good damage to them anyway. The risk vs. reward is much more balanced.
With Chun-Li it IS a good strategy to look for an opening that seems alright then go for the super. And an “alright” opening can include you just jumped over them, you just walked toward them, etc.
We all know that Chun-Li, Balrog, Ryu, Bison and maybe a few others can and do get these sort of “fluke” wins all the time. Yes, it does take some skill to land these things, but the risk/reward is just totally off. In HF it’s pretty damn hard to take 50% damage just from doing a low forward in the face of your opponent.
Edit: My point is not that supers are too good or make characters with supers too good. My point is just that supers are not good for the gameplay. Any feature that encourages players to run away and build meter is a bad one, and that’s what supers do at least some of the time. It also makes some matches, like Balrog vs. a fireball character, from an interesting one to a silly one. And people can and do get lucky wins off of supers. In HF there are very few lucky wins. To take major damage an opponent has to make a major mistake. Pressing jab is not a major mistake and the fact that you can take 40%+ damage for that is silly.
Not that ST is a bad game in any way, it’s just HF is better.
The link… I don’t play CE-Bison, but for some reason I don’t think that works. I thought his d.MK was like his ST version. Could be wrong… I’d fire up AE and test but my copy died TODAY (awesome). Can anyone confirm?
If it doesn’t combo, the guessing game is lessened somewhat… still awesome though. 
Also, Can you punish Chun’s super? It seems really amazing… is there any risk in just tossing it out? Can they score a combo if they jump over, or even just a hit even? Chun with super is fucking scary.
Dude I’m fucking around, and I don’t think he was being dumb, there’s some truth to what he’s saying.
RE Laugh: Yeah I’ve seen supers, usually Ryu’s, “eat” inputs so to speak. I figure inputs don’t register properly as the super flash is coming out. If you can find a decent way around it, please share. I suppose that’s another little quirk of ST that can be seen as adding (ghetto)strats to the game, but it’s more annoying than anything to me.
From my experience, you are correct, the super activation in ST (although there is no “super flash”) DOES halt all command inputs for a split second. This is extremely frustrating if you were in the middle of a motion because it basically “resets” whatever you were doing; you can’t resume your DP motion from wherever you were before the super was activated and your command was frozen. It’s very annoying in ST because without the flash it can be sometimes hard to realize what’s going on, making it too late to DP or do whatever you have to do to get out.
And just for the record, I find it much easier to play Dee Jay and Honda and others than Vega. Especially with Dee Jay, I can sit back all day and do nothing, throwing projectiles against the majority of the cast. With Vega, you have to CONSTANTLY be on the offense (i.e. turtling won’t work) and you have to be careful and plan your attacks. What I mean to say is, a lot of matches I play with certain characters I can “Sleep on” and not have to really concentrate because it’s a straight-up easy counter match that I can lay back and just sit around, doing repetitive stuff. With Vega, it’s all fast-paced offense and I have to think on my feet, reacting to what others do like crazy. Saying that Vega is the easiest character to play with is ridiculous to me because he’s probably forced me to think more than any other character in the game. That’s MY two cents, and that’s coming from a Vega player who’s placed.
DSP: I think people say Vega’s mindless because of his walk speed and his wall dive crossups. Vega can just stay out of your range all day and not alot of characters can get around crouching strong. Vega isnt mindless at all imo because yes you have to constantly think and react to what your opponent is doing. You get a lead on Vega its so hard to come back in most situations.
Vega has to work so hard against characters like Shoto’s, Honda, Sim, ChunLi, Bison
omg
Suuuuure Vega’s mindless!!!
And this is coming from a Vega player!
I hear you!
…that’s the problem…there is no way around it.
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I dunno Im not going to play theory fighter but theres always a way around something be it character related or not
Not to sure if we’re talking about the same thing here, but for the record, CE Dic gets guaranteed guessing game after his Scissor Kicks are blocked. You can not DP, because you are still in block stun, so you must guess between throw or [cr.Forward, st.RH]. If you’re just talking about doing [Scissor Kicks, cr.Forward, st.Forward, repeat] over and over, then yeah, DP will beat that.
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Yes thats actually what I was talking about the Scrissors, cr.strong, st.foward, repeat trap.
I totally agree that HF is more balanced than ST. Matches like Chun vs. Gief, Shotos vs. Honda, Honda vs. Hawk, etc are pretty unfair. That’s a legit complaint (character imbalance), but “supers are broken” is not a legit complaint.
[quote]
Understood, but I never said that supers were broken but comparing supers and how theyre more utilized in matchups as opposed to Hyper which scales more ON matchups.
vega is lame, isn’t that why he’s fun? i thought the whole point of playing vega was to turtle, yet you’re saying he’s offensive?
Vega owns Shotos so bad I almost laughed when I read what you wrote.
Sim v. Vega, I don’t know for sure who wins it, but that match is at least even because wall dive is really good against Dhalshim. The only thing is that once Dhalshim gets noogie trap going it is pretty hard to stop with Vega.
Vega vs. Ryu I believe can go either way. I don’t think Vega outright beats shoto’s as well. Its slightly up hill but its possible if your ground game is above average. It might be a little harder for Ken to pull a win out against Vega however.
How do I close the distance with Balrog if i’m fighting Dhalsim?
Yoga fire, kick - owns me all the time.