I can attest to this. With Zangief you can wait until the instant a downed opponent to fully stands up, input SPD motion and it will whiff. I dunno why Capcom mucked things up after ST by making it so you can throw the opponent much earlier. Couldn’t Gief in A2 for instance do a “meaty” SPD?
Yes, in later SF games it certainly does seem easier to throw people as they get up.
As far as this reversal discussion goes, you guys are mixing two different points. One point is whether or not your animation cuts of your getting up animation and other such technical points. The more salient question is, if someone is doing a meaty move on me as I get up and I try to throw them, can I?
Right now the answer is yes, I can. Whether or not that is technically a “reversal” throw is not relevant. NKI has a replay of someone throwing Bison’s slide and Chun-Li’s fierce as they get up. This means that throwing as you get up exists, at least against some attacks. Unless someone can explain how those replays don’t actually show what they purport to show.
NKI :
I did some more testing and comparing, and I’ve come to the conclusion that you were right, they really do exist. Now would you care to explain how you do them ? You never talked about that.
I’m really confused. Countless times I’ve hit my opponents with a meaty attack when they tried to throw me after recovering from the ground. And you can see a lot of japanese players do meaty attacks on the videos. The number one purpose of a meaty attack is to counter someone who tries to throw you while getting up (I also use meaty attacks a lot against players who can’t do reversals consistently).
I also noticed that the autofire of Kawaks sucks. For example I tried to do reversal dps using the auto fire and the cheat that allows you to do a special move with one button press. Sometimes the dps were reversals, sometimes not. The autofire isn’t consistent at all, and is therefore inappropriate for precise testing.
If anybody knows of an emulator that has a real autofire function (one that makes inputs every single frame), please let me know.
There’s no trick to it at all; you just input a throw command on the transition frame between getting up and neutral state. The timing is the same for any other kind of reversal (specical, super, etc). For Chun, I always hold back, tap Strong, then Fierce immediately after Strong, that way I get two chances for the reversal throw. If you have a character who can throw with all Strong, Fierce, Forward, and Roundhouse (like Ryu, Ken, Zangief, etc), you can actually get four chances.
Then they messed up the reversal throw. It’s not easy enough that people can get it 100%. It takes practice, but once you get the timing, it’s not that hard.
The reason meaty attacks are good is because only a reversal attack will beat it. Meaties are not used specifically to beat throws; they are used to beat failed reversal attempts, regardless of if that reversal was a DP, a throw, a Flash Kick, etc.
Another reason meaty attacks are so good is because they allow more devastating combos. For example, after a noogie, Sim can do meaty medium Slide, then hit confirm Short slide xx super. That combo does somewhere around 70% damage. Or as you saw in the 3-on-3 vids with me and Cole, Sim can also do meaty medium slide, two-hit headbutt (close st.Fierce) for the dizzy. He can’t normally combo after a medium slide–only after a meaty medium slide.
Agreed. That’s why I just did it by hand. (And because reversals aren’t that hard anyway.)
-Nicholai!
No such thing. Games check the status of the buttons every frame. If the button shows as pressed on every frame, then the game will think the button is being held down.
Except for Zinc I believe, as I still have yet to figure out how to reliably do holding buttons for like Ryu’s hop kick or charge moves.
I guess that means you can actually press the buttons “too fast,” interesting.
If Eishi’s test method was flawed, does anyone know the answer to my earlier question? Does one player randomly take precedence over the other when they both execute throws simultaneously? Do command throws always beat normal throws? If so, what are the technical reasons for this? I’m pretty sure 2 simultaneous spd’s result in 2 simultaneous whiffs, but what about command throws with no whiff animation? Am I too lazy to verify these things myself? Does anyone else care? :wgrin:
technically it is possible to press a button to fast, but if the game is playing at 30-60fps, it isn’t too likely that you can press and unpress a button in less than a 60th of a second.
If you want to try that out, try to play with a frame limiter and have the fps be 1 or 2 and you’ll get an idea of what I mean.
I know it’s not realistic at all, I’m just kidding around.
Correct.
I haven’t tested it, but I’d be willing to bet this is also random.
Whether or not there is whiff animation, two command throws done at the same time will produce random results. Sometimes P1 gets the throw, sometimes P2 gets it (but you’ll never get double whiff).
-Nicholai!
NKI: How do you that “walk up” super with Chun-Li? I don’t get it.
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I just can’t find anything with the search function. Maybe I just suck.
Do you mean just storing the super?
Charge back, towards, back, towards (and keep holding towards), then press kick whenever you want and the super will come out.
Or were you talking about something else? She has countless tricks with the stored super. Honda can store his super too, but because he has hands down the worst super in the game, it’s not very useful.
-Nicholai!
So as long as you’re HOLDING towards, you can ‘store’ the super?
Is there a time limit to it, like a second or so?
Sounds pretty dope, to me.
Off topic: Holy shit this keyboard is fucking loud. I wouldn’t be surprised if I woke up everyone in the damn house while I use this.
I didn’t use the autofire for this test. I just mapped my joystick to control p1 and p2 at the same time.
As look as you keep pressing forward (either by forward, up forward and down forward) the super is stored. You can press punch buttons if you want, but as long as you keep pressing forward, whenver you press kick the super comes out.
I am not totally sure about it (I think I read it in another thread) but it is possible to block and keep the super if you are quick enough to press forward again.
Like VManOfMana said, there’s no time limit for the stored super, U/F and D/F also count, and you can actually let go of towards for a few frames, then hold towards again without losing it. (So yeah, you can block, but you have to time it like a Just Defend, because if you let go of towards for too long, you lose it.)
You can also change sides without losing the stored super. Just switch directions as your character switches sides. (Doesn’t matter if you cross up the opponent, or if the opponent crosses up you; both ways will work.)
-Nicholai!
Two questions…
- Can someone please seed X-Mania 1-52 (i’m at about 26%)
- How the holy hell do people do short,short,super with Ryu?
I’ve never heard anyone else mention this before, but here’s a little trick I figured out a long time ago with Ryu. Now this was on DC, but I see no reason why it wouldn’t work on other versions.
N.Ryu has an unblockable, yes that’s right. It’s not exactly practical, but here’s how you do it. First you need meter for a super. Now you do your shinku hadoken point blank on a standing blocking opponent and hit him low while he’s in block stun. The shinku should keep him standing so you get a free low hit.
Of course the provision that they need to be standing somewhat limits the usefulness of this trick, but I can think of at least one way to apply it. Say you get a knockdown in the corner. You could fake an overhead to look like a meaty, but time it so you recover just before your opponent has fully risen. Hopefully(if your opponent reacted to the overhead fake) he will stand up blocking high. This is where you bust out the super and nail him with a low attack. Now my DC died a while ago, but I’m pretty sure you can also combo off a low short or low forward while they’re blocking. I know it’s pretty ghetto, but ghetto isn’t always a bad thing, especially in ST.
KR, you can get these directly from me…I got the whole thing. I’m now studying ST full time! Time to go back to the roots.
You’d have to press the buttons 60 times a second for that to occur. The fastest possible tap then would be 30 taps in a second. Both would be virtually impossible for a human.