…? Did you actually try duck-blocking? 'Cause when you’re in block stun, you can go from standing to ducking (and ducking to standing). After stand blocking, you are not forced to continue standing for the duration of block stun. If that were the case, there would be countless unblockables. Even something as simple as j.RH, cr.RH would be unblockable (the j.RH forces them to stand block, then they’d be unable to crouch block the cr.RH).
But this obviously isn’t the case…
-Nicholai!
With all due respect I’m not an idiot, I did test it way back when. Maybe it’s character specific? I’d have to fire up the DC(RIP :sad: ) again for a more extensive test, but that’s obviously impossible right now. Rest assured, I wasn’t under the influence or anything, and a semi-respected(lol) friend of mine can corroborate what I’m saying. I think shinku is unique because it hits in such quick succession. I guess an easier though blockable example you could use to test this would be Ken’s Fierce Dp. Block the first hit standing and try to crouch block the rest.
I’ll test it when I get home.
I guess I’ll also test Ryu’s instant air Hurricane Kick. I never really noticed going backwards being harder than going towards, but then again, I never really played Ryu…
-Nicholai!
make sure you go and compare it to ken and akumas as well. Thanks.
I will reseed it on saturday. I have to format my HD so ill be down tonight till late.
Duck Strong is right, I just tested in kawaks with ssf2t.zip (World 940223). Point blank range is too close; the fireball will will pass through after 2-3 chips. Do it at a solid sweep range/tip of s.fierce. For some reason, you can’t crouch block after stand blocking the first hit until all of the block stun is over. Ryu has enough advantage to sweep for free. Because of crappy keyboard, I can’t test out c.forward xx hadouken.
Does he get free overhead if you block low? I can’t remember…
I REALLY doubt it. From what I remember, the timing is pretty tight and an overhead is alot slower than a sweep so… draw your own conclusions.
After playing for a bit, this isn’t quite true. There is the blocking when the actual contact is made, and then there is the blockstun afterwards. The hits of the shinkuu happen so fast that you never actually leave blocking before the next hit happens. After all five hits are done, then you go into blockstun, which is when you can switch from high block and low, and also when the ‘push back’ from the hits kick in. That’s why you will normally block all five hits before being pushed back even a pixel from the blocking.
At least that’s my take on it. You can’t go from high block to low block when blocking, but you can when in blockstun.
Thanks for the Ryu tips at EVO NKI, and a pleasure to meet you :tup:
Duck Strong - I did some testing, and you were right. Here’s what I found:
You can’t switch to/from ducking/standing while actually blocking something (as the little “blocking sparks” appear), but you can during the blockstun afterwards. Because you’re still blocking the hits of the Shinkuu, Ryu gets a free low hit. However, this is not useful in a match because even if they try to fake you out with the overhead, after you see the super flash (on reaction) you can duck block in time.
Still, good to know none the less. I learned something new today. Props to you! :tup:
-Nicholai!
Just a quick question that’s been bothering me : why are tick throws so powerful (well, they are less powerful in st thanks to tech throws) in old school sf when there is the possibility to do reversal throws ?
If you think about it, it would even be theorically possible to reversal throw gief or hawk when they try to tick spd you, but I very rarely see that happen, and when it happens it’s because they messed up and did the spd too late.
So what’s the deal ?
^^
That was sorta my reasoning for thinking that command throws outprioritze normal onces, but I really couldn’t say for sure.
I think it’s because the timing favours the attacker.
Think of it this way. The attacker, performing the tick throw, knows the timing very well to land his throw on the first possible frame. Since he’s controlling the tick, he can use simple muscle memory to get very good timing. The defender, has to look for some kind of visual cue to get the reversal throw off. This makes timing the reversal iffy, and the fact the other guy can do stuff like, jab twice instead of once, chain jabs, link jabs, or whatever, basically tilts the timing heavily in the favour of the attacker. The attacker, just presses buttons according to a predetermined rhythm, more or less. The timing will be close to airtight. The defender has to go off visual cues, and I would bet that most people would have to “feel” for the reversal. They don’t have any way of getting the exact timing, and replicating it every time. It’s just something you do then and there. Defender needs to recognize the specific tick, especially if the ticks give different amounts of blockstun, and react appropriately on the fly, whereas the attacker knows the timing right from the start.
Dunno, just my 2 cents of game theory. I don’t play ST, so I could be making stuff up :p. And I wonder if there’s a discrepancy between normal throw ranges, and special throw ranges. That might play a role. Like after 2 T. Hawk jabs, are you still in range to throw? He can 360 you, but can you toss him?
I like that explanation. That’s pretty much the way I feel about reversing throws in ST. The attacker is the driver’s seat for another reason too. If the defender anticipates a throw and tries to reverse too early, they’ll whiff a normal, which extends their throwable range and all but guarantees the throw for the attacker.
For not playing ST, you sure know a lot about ST, because you summed that up perfectly. :tup:
Attacker knows what’s coming, defender doesn’t. Command throws have more range than normal throws, which is why you can’t reversal throw them (provided the attacker does it correctly, and stays out of the defender’s throw range).
-Nicholai!
what version of st should i be practicing on for evo? :karate:
In every SF game after CE, you can do reversal normals, specials, or throws. SFEX is the only SF game that shows the reversal message for normals, but all of them have it.
In MVC2, you can actually reversal jump up. As Magneto, knock your opponent down, and do a meaty c.RH slide after the OTG window is over. Have your opponent jump up, and they will jump out every time. Have them jump forward or back, and they will get hit every time.
As for the question of who gets priority on same frame throws, you will notice that when two characters overlap, one of them is “in front” and one of them is “in back.” This is determined by the last character to perform an action (walking doesn’t count, but ducking does).
This relationship controls who gets priority in same-frame throw attempts. I don’t remember whether the person in front or in back gets the priority (it’s basically useless trivia), but it is consistent.
Oh, and NKI is right; you can provide a hundred replays of you failing to reversal throw, and his replays showing successful reversal throws instantly negates them all. You can’t prove a negative.
Good question…
Are you sure this works in ST as well? I just tested it, and it seemed pretty random to me. Both the “in front” character and “in back” character could get the throw.
-Nicholai!
NKI: Good job in those vids!
I was just wondering how you did Chun’s super after walking forward?