Smashboards’ have been discussion about making Melee as tournament good as possible. For years. If anythign, it’ll be the same rules as Smashboards (minus maybe a few “Fox Spam” levels if it’s more of a nuisance than an actual “I give you 300% damage without getting anything” level (haven’t studied much on how heavy the impact is(if we’re lucky (imo it’s good), it’ll be FD only))); 1vs1 (2vs2 if we’re lucky (first team tournament at Evo, anyone?(have there been any team tournaments at Evo before?(way too many parentheses)))), no items, some banned stages (FD only if necessary), regular play.
Here’s a clip that I got from one of our crew’s gatherings: [media=youtube]gJkPoBiT9ww[/media]
I’ll tell you right now, if that happened to me, I would have thrown the cube right out the window.
I’m liking where this thread is going, bringing Smashers out of the woodwork.
TFGM: Good posts. Probably the most important thing to happen in the evolution of Smash Bros. is the advent of WiFi.
Now not only will this create a huge gamiing community but a huge competitive community as well. And the sad part is, instead of SRK embracing this “different” but albeit competitive fighting game they only have utter resentment.
Even worse is they I have never seen one hater actually learn competitive play far enough to have higher reasons to hate it.
spudlyff8fan: For every scrubby [fighting game] fan they’re others, esp. on Smashboards that know what they’re talking about. Especially if you actually stray away from the main boards about “Who’s the coolest character?!” and go directly to the character faqs and video discussion/tutorials.
You might as well complain about scrubs who say 3S is totally balanced but people don’t try hard enough and Juggernaut should be top tier because he has DA POWA!!!
Probably the same reason why the competitive community never adopted console versions of other fighters. It doesn’t play the same way as we’re used to, so we won’t use it. The same argument can be presented for MvC2, SFA3, SFA2G, and a ton of other fighters which had “upgrades” or revisions that the community didn’t like, so they stuck with what they had always played with.
The thing I don’t like about Smashboards is that there are time when it feels like there are no staff members around and I see like a duplicated thread in some of the character forums almost every week. And spudlyff8fan, they do put up with a lot of crap over there. I clearly remember in one of the suggestions thread for Brawl, one guy mentioned the removal of phantom hits because they’re really stupid and are frustrating when you’re in the heat of a close match and when you land a killing hit, the phantom hit saves your opponent and they end up killing you instead. Then another member bashed him for saying that he wanted something removed and it wouldn’t make the game any better. I was utterly appalled that no one reprimanded him for it.
Evo’s first open team tournament IIRC was Guilty Gear Slash for 2006. Before that there were a couple team exhibitions, but they were smaller and not open.
I think people are reading into the internet way too much. I don’t think SRK has a pre-disposition to Smash as much as just an unawareness of it. It’s not like (that i know of) people were willing to set up ssbm and play a part and were told “oh hell no gtfo losers”, i think it’s quite the opposite. I personally shared a tournament with smashers, and evo themselves had mlg in 2k5 who i believe had smash, and then (suprisingly to some) praised the attention they got from USA in a blog article (http://shoryuken.com/?p=61).
Of course people are going to troll on threads and say whatever they feel like, but that doesn’t represent any sort of official community position, and if the mission is to make everyone on the internet open minded and accepting in forum posts, good luck i guess.
In addition, SF community is pretty unique in that there are a LOT of ‘main games’. While a SSBM tourney is basically SSBM, a tournament for this community is at a minimum MvC2, CvS2, 3s, (soon ST), not to mention MvC2 is still on DC. To some it might seem like SF people are closed in, there’s really 4 communities within this one, so it’s a challenge to sell more even more games to the same players. To then say that there’s a lack of diversity is weird as well.
I think we’re all trying to get to the same place, while some commuities might have a few hundred more or less people or dollars, no community is really where they could be anyway.
A lot of the problem is in the sales pitch, “You are closeminded, arrogant, only play one game, and probably hate us” is probably not a great way to start a dialog (unless you want replies in kind). Just handle your business and when there’s chances for ssbm and sf to work together we can take it one situation at a time.
Me not following SRK’s blog since a few months ago ftl X.x
I’ve never actually read anything ('cept a few “smash sux lol” posts) from the SRK community that says anything really bad or negative about Smash. It’s like a group of kids playing something on their PS2, another kid walks by with his DS, and they’re all “Whatever.”
Yes I’ve heard a lot about you actually. Nothing but praise and I can see why. It’s kinda weird seeing Falco played like that against Mewtwo of all people. People would look at the tier list and think, what does Mewtwo have in that matchup? But as always, tier lists are very misleading.
i think the reason is that it is too much trouble to import the pal version and whatever is needed to make it work. besides, playing the version that we had made the community adapt to overcome certain “cheap” tactics.
and actually, there were different versions of the game released here in the US tho. each of them took out a glitch or two here and there.
i think one of the great things about the game is the control that you always have over your char. by this i mean the following. lets say that you are being potemkin bustered in guilty gear… you might as well let go of the controller for 2 seconds while the move executes. same deal when you’re being dust combo’ed or combo’ed in general (unless you have a burst). as long as your opponent doesnt mess up, you eat the combo every time.
in melee, on the other hand, you better be doing something while someone is hitting you otherwise their combo will simply continue until you are dead. you better be DI’ing, CC’ing, attempting to jab out, teching or whatever. your opponent is forced to adapt his combo to a very specific situation that you are in some control over.
as far as uniting the fgc and smash community. thats just up to the tourney coordinators. if you want to further this cause, you just need to go out there and do it.
“Show Me Your Moves” is a long running smash tourney (that is happening this weekend) and it will be featuring guilty gear and mbac this time around b/c i spoke w/ the tourney coordinator and asked him to add it to the lineup.
I honestly don’t think importing should be an excuse to not move onto a more refined version of a fighting game. Guilty Gear fans always move onto the latest version. US ps2 owners haven’t had a GG release since XX. Yet that didn’t stop a lot of people from finding a way to get the latest versions and be able to play them. And afaik, most of the glitches that were removed from later US versions of Smash weren’t practical in match play. But whatever nobody really cares.
And Guilty Gear and MBAC at a Smash tourney? You can’t imagine how much I’d love to go to a tourney like that. All Smash tourneys I’ve been to there’s no other game in site. Simply because they have never heard of those games.
A couple more things about the version differences.:
The japanese use the same version as the US. Altho the US players dont really copy any of the japanese stuff, but still. It’s only the Europeans and Australians that have the pal version.
Also, just like MasterChibi said, the whole ease of use thing… importing is expensive and kind of a hassle. There’s no way that the entire smash community would import the game from Europe. If some people setup Pal tourneys I’m sure people would go to them, but if those people demanded that everyone else also import the game I am sure that they would be seen as elitist… certainly not the best strategy to promote competitive smash. Remember that smash is popular b/c it is very easily accessible.
Besides, unlike Guilty Gear where the Japanese are the leaders and determine the standard, in Smash the US are the leaders and determine the standard.
Well, all that aside, you’re prolly right that the community should switch versions, but those are a couple of the reasons why it didn’t.
Another reason why the newer GGXX games become the new standard is because it’s more of a change from XX to #R and #R to Slash. Like, in a previous post, if only a few small things and glitches were removed in the Pal version of Smash (like Shiek’s chain grab I guess) it’s only a small portion. Compared to like GGXX where every character has many different changes to his move list and properties and what-not. And Smash is not the only game where while a better version is out there, its still not the standard for the competive scene. (ie. Soul Calibur 3) The reason these games (the PAL ver. of SSBM) are’nt the current standard is’nt because it’s a better game, it’s because it’s WAY too much of a hassle to have everyone consider importing a game just for a few random changes that many people would just argue about anyways.
Well that’s the thing, Sheik’s chain grab wasn’t the ONLY thing that was changed in PAL. All the top/high tiers were toned down in some ways. It would have made for even more character diversity.
PAl did have a ton of changes. I can’t remember half of them, but I do know it helped Peach out a little because she got hardly any (if any at all) changes. About the only big change I can think is Falco’s dair no longer spikes as well. Which was VERY nice, that move is worse than Sagat cr. fierce.
Smash’s community really is closed off to the Street Fighter comp though. I was playing some guy at a get together in Portland in Guilty Gear XX, and he couldn’t do RC or any good stuff. It’s funny, because that guy was leagues above me in Smash.
IIRC, Falco’s dair still spiked but not while he was moving up during the move. Making it a less effective ledge hop move. All they had to do was increase the startup or make it meteor cancellable to balance it. Falco got most of his kills that way but with that move being weakened he has to rely more on fsmash and dsmash. His vertical kill game is very weak with dtilt being his most powerful vertical killer. Peach is already a good character so she didn’t really need any buffs. I think she could have used a few nerfs though but nothing huge.
I think I’m the only competitive Melee player in my area that’s also knowledgeable and/or skilled in other fighting games. I don’t know if I should be proud or not but I’m just happy that I’m not like the Smash elitists. To them, no other fighting game exists or is worth playing.
Smash is my main game and I like playing other fighters. I guess I dont count though because I started my competitive days with SF, and then stuck with Smash as my favorite when it came out, whereas most people that play Smash competitively now started very recently (usually between 0-3 years), having only played it casually before then. I still play SF a lot, though, mostly SFA2 and 3S.
The main problems with SWF is that a lot of the character discussions that take place are of poor quality because they are between people that have no clue what is actually correct. Things like the correct punishes, proper matchup/stage specifics, and such are generally discussed at poor levels (with a few exceptions). This is why you hardly ever see good players post in the character specifics (which helps keep the scrubs in scrubdom by scrubiminizing each other to death).
Also, the scene has become not much more than just a popularity contest. A lot of good players that know their stuff are hardly ever recognized because everyone wants to talk about the mediocre combo videos that are made to give a show and gain attention. Sastopher is one of the best Peaches in the U.S. and is hardly ever mentioned because he does not make videos and does not travel often. When he placed 2nd at FC3 (huge tournament with over 200 players) people quickly forgot about him. BUM is hardly mentioned even though he places consistently high at the Gauntlet tournaments using DK. It doesnt matter though. He doesnt make cool videos or travel often, so therefore he must be no good /sarcasm. The people at SWF do not understand what really makes a good player, as most of them have only started competing not so long ago.
Just in case, not everyone at SWF is like this, but too many for my tastes.
i totally agree with lord hdl about the char specific thread on swf. i post plenty on swf, but 95% of my posts are in the regional or tourney forums.
i dont really see this as a big deal tho. some people seem really offended with the way those threads are. most of the stuff ive learned in smash has been thru face to face conversations, real matches, and match vids. i feel thats how it should be. thats also how ive learned everything i know about guilty gear.
satopher was considered one of the best around the time of FC3, but it would be unfair to classify him that way for all times. people improve and/or get worse over time. if you want to be one of the current “best” players, you have to prove it.
the thing about being “recognized” is that you have to travel. either that or you have to be really annoying and self promoting. and, to be honest, the good people know who the other good people are.
people can be good at the game and not be recognized, thats obvious. but if you want to be recognized as good, then you need to travel.
I can not speak for others but I will say this. In terms of what I’m talking about in lack of diversity I mean that in the “FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY” not “THE STREET FIGHTER COMMUNITY”. For now the FGC is pretty much diverse because of Tekken, VF, Guilty Gear and of recent DOA. However I “Feel” that the FGC is incomplete and are missing series like KOF and SSBM. Hosting one or two games to rep your community in terms of the company that backs the game is one thing but having 4 of the same branded games, like ST, CVS2, 3S all which have Ryu in it is a bit redundant.
Now to us who play the games we know its not the same game as they each have their own unquie engine but I think it would serve better for the FGC as a whole if Capcom had 2 games, Namco had 1, SNK had 1, Sammy had 1 and Nintendo had 1, Temco had 1, Sega had 1 and Bandia had 1. That’s 9 games with 7 different 8communities across the board a testiment to “TRUE DIVERSITY” in the “FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY”.
Dream FGC Tournament
Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Tekken 5 or (DR)
KOF 11
Guilty Gear Slash or Fist of the North Star
Super Smash Brothers Melee
Dead or Alive 4
Naruto
Virtua Fighter 5
To me that beats the following…
Street Figther 3: Third Strike
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Tekken 5 of DR
Guilty Gear Slash or Fist of the North Star
Dead or Alive 4
Virtua Fighter 5
Kind of stale isn’t it. Its time for the new era in fighting games…seriously. This community as a whole…not street fighter…needs to step their game up.
