TO SAY FUCK SUPER SMASH BROS MELEE…APPARENTLY!
dat ends dat.disregard what i think about ssbm and continue the wack ass thread!
Wii is definately going to make the Smash community even more expansive with Brawl. Soon we might even be able to organize tournies from our own living rooms!!!:bgrin:
Oh and to TFGM: Items and all “terrain” were tried in the first year or so of SSBM and allowed in tourneys… which is precisely why people saw that it created an imbalance and too much randomness. It’s not like they banned items from the get-go. Secondly, items are always have a chance of being explosive and that can’t be controlled, further complicating matters.
The main reason though is because certain characters are actually top tiers or BROKEN in certain stages because they can abuse a glitch or recovery techniques that makes them only vunerable to specific types of death. LMAO @ those who would want to face Peach on Fourside or Fox in a stage with corners.
Basically it is the equivalent of allowing the use of Sent/Sent/Sent vs Mag/Mag/Psy with Infinite Time in Evo tournies; sure you can do it because it is an option, but there’s a reason no one does.
Lantis: I think you find competitive Smash boring because you don’t understand the mindgames and techniques involved. Instead you prefer the comedic fun of tossing items and explosive effects, since, of course it could never EVER be as serious as Street Fighter.
Oh and Final Destination isn’t only the stage used. There’s Dreamland, Fountain of Dreams, Pokemon Stadium, Corneria, CF stage, and a few more. And in tourneys if the 2 opponents agree they can fight on a non-standard stage, since the choice is up to them.
I’m just glad that I’ve been able to enjoy both communities.:pleased:
White Shadow wins.
I personally prefer playing with tournament rules. I think it’s hillarious how some people think that “playing by tournament rules takes out half the game!!1” even though all the things that are taken out are… well, not a lot at all. Won’t be a random item every 20 seconds, won’t have Hyrule Temple’s “Sanctuary” as I like to call it (the lower left area of the stage; if you get just at the right place, you can stay alive until you have 300+ %), there won’t be some of the gimmicky-esque different settings (who the hell plays coin battles?), add a few more stages, and that’s it.
The characters themselves should represent 90% of the game, IMO.
Stages with corners/walls that Fox can exploit for drillshine or even shine infinites are not banned. Corneria and Princess Peach’s Castle both have walls that Fox can exploit and are perfectly acceptable counter stage picks. Even Kanto (a neutral stage) can get walls for those infinites.
The main reason why stages like Hyrule and Termina are banned is because Fox can just peck you with one laser, then run from you the entire time, and you’re basically screwed when playing a timed game because you just won’t catch him (Hyrule’s retarded cave is another reason).
I’ve played in tournaments with items on and it sucks. Random exploding crates, capsules and party bombs as well as having random bomb-ombs dropped on your head when attacking make me feel that I was not beat by my opponent but rather by the game screwing me over. Since I’ve started playing with no items and not on the banned stages, I’ve found the game way more fun.
@hotaro: It’s funny that you mention that because a large part of tournament play is counter picking (characters and stages).
I’ve never really seen any special vids of melee until I saw these guys play:
[media=youtube]tPqxMgdzKV4&mode=related&search=[/media]
Crazy shit.
hopes that was a typo
And actually, there isn’t that much counterpicking in Melee. Get Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Shiek, Peach, and you’re pretty much set. Also, in most tournaments, you’re not even allowed to counterpick, since they’re double blind.
You’re completely right on the blaster thing, though.
And if you want some high level smash, just search for it on youtube or Google video (GV has less “lol, fun” low level stuff, IMO edit: Acttually, YT doesn’t have much bad crap. Reconsidering ftw.) or, you can watch all of these videos.
The concept of counter picking (for characters) is greatly exaggerated in the Smash games imo. The top tiers don’t have any counters and 99% of tournament players are top tier users. Most of the people over at smashboards think that one character “counters” another just because one player won the match, not taking into account that a match could have gone either way. You get some of the most absurd “counterpicks” because of this.
Bowser beats Falco, you know. But Fox beats Bowser.
And Roy beats Marth. That’s why Smash Bros is the most balanced fighting game ever.
May I be the first to say:
WTF I hope that was a joke.
Roy beats Marth because he has phir3!!!111111 Any time I see someone asking for Roy strategies against another character, 90% of the time the answer is something along the lines of “choose a better character.”
Just barely getting into this game. It was a whole lotta fun when it first came out and there really was’nt a “tourney scene” for the game. Just mindless fun with so many random consequences. But now, the tournament scene has had quite an impact and I’m still hella curious what to expect to see in Brawl.
Anyways, I’m a Falco (and to a certain extent, Fox) and Peach user. But one thing that I always get though from other players is that how I need to learn 2 characters since character match’s have a HUGE impact on the game. (Like Shiek is top teir, but Falco rapes Shiek, but Marth rapes Falco, but Peach, rapes Marth, but Shiek/Space animals rapes peach, etc. etc.) But since I’m playing with Space animals and Peach, I’ll stick with them.
The only thing I really don’t like about Smash is just how everyone plays the damn game. And I play at the local University, and there are 4 controllers, and there will always be 4 players that wants to play. So there is never any room for 1 on 1 action (which hurts my play, since I can’t really focus on too much before I random get hit and KO’ed or something) not to mention that there are more people that just mess around with it, rather than take it seriously (which I guess is the big thing around here). To me, if there is going to be a 4 man FFA (which, to me, is random as hell) turn on items or something, half of the players suck ass anyways (I can already own a few people at Smash that have been playing since the game came out, despite in experience with 1 on 1’s)
But yeah, it’s a fun game, I just generally don’t like some of the players.
There are counter characters, but a lot of smash players do play space animals because they are one of the few that don’t have solid counters. Shiek gets countered by ICs (rarely seen because ICs are rarely played), Peach by Marth, Marth by Shiek (well, used to, good Marth players now don’t get countered by Shiek). There are characters which will do better against others.
A large aspect of how effective a counter is the stage that the match is played on. Peach vs. Marth for example is much less a counter pick on Dreamland (where the size plays largely to Peach’s recovery), but it is huge on Yoshi’s story, where the small size of the stage (both killzones and stage itself) are detrimental to Peach. On YS she will have problems staying away from Marth to get turnips and doesn’t have her recovery to help her out (size). That’s why I said both stage and character.
If characters didn’t have counters, why would people bother learning secondarys? You’ll rarely find a top ranked tournament player without at least one solid backup. Hell, even Ken and PC Chris don’t use the same characters all the time, and they main top tier. A large part of tournament play is picking stages and characters that are either a) good together or b) bad for what character you expect your opponent to choose.
Btw, Roy > Marth because his sword sets people on fire (seriously, Marth > Roy)
Again, aren’t most tournaments double blind? Or optional?
And IMO the advantages are barely nothing, so it’s better to play your own character.
Tier list changed a while ago.
Top Tier:
Fox
Falco
High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf
Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu
Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo
That’s the new list but Sheik is still very high up there. Stupidly easy to play, with sinfully easy combos and the ever so annoying chain throw, which works on like half the cast. Marth isn’t countered by Sheik but she’s still a bitch for him to deal with. She has a much easier time comboing him and her needles destroy his recovery. She also dominates air-to-air combat. Her slap vs his fair is not a good trade especially at higher damages. Some people are still inclined to believe that she counters him but imo it’s a matchup that’s more winnable than others.
And Onslaught2000, I hear ya. The fighting game scene in my area is dominated by Smash to the point where I’ve kinda gotten sick of it and don’t have nearly as much enthusiasm as I once did.
I know about how good Shiek is, I was just pointing out he (yes, I said he. That’s 'cause I think that if Zelda can change her eye, hair and skin color, then she should be able to change sexes too. Why not?) isn’t top anymore.
And I just wish barely ANYBODY gave a damn about video gaming where I live. The only people I know who give a damn are me, my brother (barely play with him since he hates repetition (not cheapness per se, just something happening 10 times in a row)), my brother’s friend/s (barely ever see any of them; most of the time my brother goes to their house)(one of wich is a fat idiot, IMO), a few guys (3) that are mentally retarded, and another that has a physical handicap, but he acts like a 5 year old (and looks like one even though he’s 15 (I seriously think he hasn’t gotton through puberty)).
I’m kinda glad that she’s not top anymore because she (or he as you would rather say) is probaby the scrubbiest character in the game. Maybe even the least execution intensive as well. It makes sense for the space animals to be ranked that high because they have all the right moves but they’re nowhere near as easy to use.
Most tournaments only apply double blind to first match in a set and usually only if a player requests it. All subsequent matches for the set are usually advanced slob picks (loser picks stage, winner picks character, loser picks character, in that order). Depending on who runs a tournament, players may also choose to knock out one stage from the counter stage list (ie. stages which are not banned or in random select). So stage selection and character selection do come into play a lot.
You do know what “optional” means, right?
I always get the feeling that I’m seemed as a newb. shrugs
Scrubby, easy or whatever, s/he’s still good. Good speed, good damage, good priority, and some other things. Play to effing win.
The only real reason why people shouldn’t play him/her is beacause the player might forget to hold A and be royally screwed. Though it’s a stupid reason, it’s probably the best I can think of (other than the obvious "I don’t play/want to play ‘it’ beacause the way it plays is not for me, but that’s for everybody).
O wow. I play Super Smash Brothers Melee as a casual game and i never really got too deep in to notice what characters were good and all. Now that I’ve seen it and read this discussion it makes me wanna get into it, but the gaming scene where I’m at is all 3S (which i wub and will always), GGXX\ (i suck but i’ll play if everybody else is), and ST (im ok against players on it but the computer owns me). Nobody really plays the SSBM type of fighting game here, sometimes at partys i go to some people will bust it out and we’ll start playing but eventually a arguement will break out about it (usually about someone being cheap with items)
Personally I always played Roy, just because he was the first character i tryed playing in SSBM and i did pretty good as him, but now that i see the tier list i think i should pick fox, funny thing is, when i play at partys, everybody chooses low tier characters (including me).
Well if you’re playing at a party then don’t worry too much about the tiers, especially in 4 player matches. Fox is a character that naturally does better in 1v1 situations anyway because he doesn’t have many moves that are good for crowd control. If you live in an area that plays more than one fighting game, be glad that they do because most places that are really big on Smash don’t play anything else from my experience.