Hmm, I wonder why I hadn’t seen it in tourney vids, lol. Goes to show me I suppose.
Well then who cares if it’s included if it’s just going to be banned in tournaments anyway? I mean that’s like getting upset if they include some broken boss character in the game if you have the knowledge ahead of time that they’d ban the boss character.
Does anyone have the slightest bit of a logical response to why breaking the game should be allowed? Completely freezing your opponents character? It doesn’t matter how hard it is, or what the setup is, should it ever be allowed to completely nullify your opponents actions and just instantly kill them with a glitch?
As for the next game, you don’t include a glitch. It’s called a glitch for a reason. Smash isn’t a game that’s ever included insta-win moves (Except falcons knee, just kidding, not really), and they wouldn’t start with a freezing-glitch-thing. Complicated, difficult technical moves essentially scale with the effectiveness of said moves. So for a movie that insta-kills your opponent, it needs to be infinitely hard to perform. Or, in other words, not performable. Which sort of nullifies the point of having it in the game.
There, I fixed the post.
Well I suppose you said “breaks the game” enough times to where my eyes lost focus, and I couldn’t continue.
So um…you win?
I just don’t have the energy to tell you any other way that I disagree on how severly the glitch alters gameplay. I also at this point don’t think we are going to agree.
So…I’ll take my differing opinion on the severity of the glitch and um…change it for you? We cool? On to hopefully much more amusing lines of conversation for a thread that’s more for Brawl speculation. (There was a long thread about it in FGD awhile back, if you interested in hearing the views of others there would be the place to look.)
So back to Brawl conjecture. I wonder, does Metaknight speak? I would wager he just grunts. In that horrible Kirby television show he had a very bad spanish accent.
He speaks? O.o
I’ll repeat again that the Freeze Glitch breaks the game and that there is no justification for doing such. There are several reasons for this, if anyone in this thread can successfully dismiss even one of these I’ll consider your argument has some merit, though it’s still banned so you still can’t do it to me in a tournament and I still don’t give a fuck about it.
It alters the way the game is supposed to function in a completely imbalanced manner
I am supposed to be able to move. It makes it so I can’t move, permanently. That’s wrong.
It puts one person in an impossible situation to win
I can do absolutely nothing about what is happening, I must put my controller down and sit back, take the beating and lost life, and then try to pick up the pieces afterward. The game is not supposed to function like that, because that nullifies the point of it being a game.
It’s not easy at all to dodge
If we’re talking Guilty Gear, where insta-kills are so obvious you dodge them by accident, that’s one thing (Also, every character has one). But with the IC ultimate, the ONLY way to dodge it is to, quite literally, not get grabbed the entire match. Which isn’t really possible. You can be put in setups where you need to block and then get grabbed. Even if it were possible to completely avoid being grabbed, it would change the mechanics of the game so much you’d essentially be treating the ICs as a god, and spending the entire match running away from God. Which brings me to my next point:
There is no counterbalance in the game to the Freeze Glitch
In MvC2, which was brought up, Iron Man has an infinite. However, Magneto, Sentinel, and well… everyone… also have infinites. Why does this work? A major concept of MvC2 is NEVER being hit, and once you DO get hit, expect to take A LOT of hits. That’s the way the game functions, and the ‘balance’ that exists in the game functions by those principles. In Smash, there is no counterbalance to the ICs freeze glitch, except another pair of ICs. Because of this, the only way to balance the match is for both players to choose ICs. In situations where only one character is playable, one of a few things happen- The character is banned (ST Akuma) or the game isn’t played (Most fighting games that aren’t played). Or, in this case, where a glitch is responsible, the glitch is banned. It would be very different if other forces existed in the game to counterbalance the glitch, but they don’t because it’s a glitch.
4a) Pre-emptive counterargument: Wavedashing.
Every character can wavedash. Not every character can Freeze Glitch. That’s the difference.
Now then, if any of you can even disprove ONE of those four points I’ll concede that you have a point. You’re still wrong in that it’s still a retarded, broken glitch that would completely ruin the game if it were allowed (See Footnote), but I’ll accept that there is debate to be had. If you can’t prove me wrong on any of 1-4, there is no way you can possibly say the Freeze Glitch should be allowed. It just isn’t at all logical or rational. So go ahead, prove me wrong, I love a challenge.
Footnote- It was legal for a short period after it was discovered. It was abused, and countless players won many tournaments with ICs during this time, until it was banned. There was a thread on Smashboard awhile back with vids of it being done in tournaments, showing how to do it. If you wavedash, roll or dodge into it a certain way you can do it every time, the ‘tutorial’ video showed how to do it. That’s why it was banned and remains banned,
Saying things like ‘But it’s hard to do, it should be allowed because it takes skill to do and if I can master it I should be allowed to do it’ are scrubby. Why? You’re playing by your own rules, instead of rules that make sense, or the rules other people play by. Other people don’t care how hard it is, they care whether or not it is broken, which it is. If there was a technique in the game which was NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE (Read- years of practice to master) to do, but was so broken that when you mastered it you just win, someone would master it. That someone would go around to every tournament winning every time, and it would completely ruin the game. There is no point going into a tournament when you know there is nothing you can do to win against this man except master what he mastered, and that kind of one-technique ‘competition’ belies an imbalanced, bad game.
edit- And to clarify, we are talking about the FREEZE glitch, and not the grab infinite. Which I believe is also banned in some places, but is significantly less gay, and I wouldn’t campaign against it. There’s ways to break out of it, it only works under certain conditions.
Last I checked, IC glitch didn’t win EVO East and it’s very escapable. I saw a few players actually stop the Ice Climbers dead in their tracks with precision and ease. Thus, it’s not really an abusable glitch. You HAVE to make the effort to set it up. You can’t just run in and expect to grab your opponent immediately. Runaway Peach > Ice Climbers. Saw it at EVO East and the Grand Finals was Marth vs. Marth. Go figure.
Oh, and your MvC2 analogy sucks. Marvel doesn’t rely on infinites as much as you think. Iron Man is the only one that really needs it. Resets rule the day in Marvel.
It’s an example for its purpose, that while there are infinites, they are balanced, and the ICs glitch isn’t balanced.
The IC glitch could never have won a tournament in recent history, because it is banned. How many times do I have to say that?
“But why doesn’t it win tournaments?”
YOU CAN NOT DO IT in tournaments lol.
Last time I checked player rankings, the 1st player in the US was SephirothKen, a Marth player, the 2nd was ChuDat, an ICs player. So… with Ice Climbers being the character of the 2nd best player in the US while their glitch is banned, is it very far to guess that allowing it would push them through the roof of bullshit?
Also, Deathscythe whenever I see you post about smash you’re bashing it. Why are you even in this thread?
It was used at EVO East and no one said anything. Because you know, I was there and I saw it live. Watching Chudat trying to set it up and failing time after time again. If you’re playing against someone that knows the game, then yeah, IC glitch ain’t gonna happen.
Are you talking about the grab infinite (Grab, smack smack smack smack until 100%+) or the Freeze Glitch (Character stuck in mid-air, non-moving). I can hardly believe that the Evo rules allowed the freeze glitch. At the very least, every MLG (95% of smash tournaments with decent players) bans it. And if Chu was missing it, that’s probably because he doesn’t have practice doing it. Because most tournaments ban it.
I know Evo hates MLG and they don’t get along, so actually it surprises me a great deal less that they didn’t use the same set of rules. So I change my previous statement. UNLESS IT’S EVO, it’s banned. The only reason they wouldn’t ban it would be ignorance of the game, which again doesn’t surprise me, as SF people tend to hate smash and vis versa. If a smash person were setting up an ST tournament, I can see them not banning Akuma and someone coming in behind them and scolding them for it, then banning him before it started.
I don’t know this game, but I’ve read alot of the arguements. It seems you guys might be arguing about two different things. I think Kalypso is talking about another glitch, while the rest of you are talking about wobbling.
Though, I could be absolutely wrong.
I think that may be what’s going on. I added into the end of my long post that the grab infinite (Wobbling, grabbing someone and alternately hitting them so they can’t escape it) is NOT the same thing as the freeze glitch (Pivot to grab with nana, throw them down/up, over-b into them and their character becomes completely frozen, you can smack them up to 999%, then grab then and they snap out of it, you just throw them into a down-smash and kill them). They are very different.
Wobbling is not banned, and I don’t think it’s gay. Freeze glitching IS banned, and it IS gay.
I went to Evo’s website, in their smash description they have a battle. And wow, that’s a terrible match lol. That fox is nowhere NEAR as good as Ken (Best US player)… why is that up there as the preview to the game? Show some PC Chris Falco vs Ken Marth, those matches are excellent.
Wow, he actually used f.air O.o And I don’t think he used shine once the entire match. Not to mention DIing into f.smash twice… not to say he’s a horrible player or anything but nothing compared to Ken, in that match at least.
Smash Bros
SERIOUS BUSSINESS
Metaknight never spoke in the game, and to my knowledge never made any sounds whatsoever. In the show, he spoke (Kirby didn’t say words, just made his normal noises) but he had a spanish accent. Though I realize that’s not really canon at all.
Though I guess thinking about it, very few characters in Melee actually spoke. Some did during taunts, and some announced move names, but not a whole lot of chatter coming from characters.
And yeah, I misunderstood, I was talking about wobbling. I’m not as Smash versed as I could be it seems. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
No updates today :crybaby:
Anyway,who else needs to buy a Wii,and will this game have online or not?
Eh? In Kirby Super Star, Meta Knight did speak.
Anyway, I wouldn’t count on too many characters having voices. Snake for sure, Samus maybe. If Marth and Roy are still in there they’ll probably still speak Japanese, if they put Ike in he’ll speak English though (because he has an English VA in Path of Radiance).
Oh yeah, he speaks to those guys that work under him right? My memory is a bit fuzzy on him from that game.
They should have Snake’s taunt be a protracted conversation on his comm link, that continues until he’s either hit, or the player actually cancels it. I mean you can’t have snake without bunches of dialogue. Like Game&Watch’s taunt, it can be used to annoy.
The Fox player is Masashi. He and Ken fought each other in a tournament when Ken went to Japan two years ago. And I agree, he’s nowhere near as impressive as some of the Fox players here in the US.
JP players =/= american players americans and japs just don’t play the game the same. Japs focus a lot on style and differences in play. while americans focus on the more technical aspect of the game.
So that’s what,two thing’s we have the advantage in over Japan
Marvel vs Capcom 2(By default since they don’t play this as seriously over there)
Super SMash Brothers Melee
In all honestly Chu said that jap players are amazing and would really beat american players to no end. Imo I think he’s over-exaggerating it a bit I don’t see how a very smart player will be a smart techy player. it just doens’t add up to me. <_<