Main thing i see with this, is that people will start camping the item spawns, and people will complain. “You cant win w/o items” etc, that and considering how different characters use different items more effectively, that could influence people picking characters, since then they would have a better chance since they know their choice item has “this” chance of spawning on this stage, with a uniform set of rules for item spawning on specific stages.
For me though, ill leave the items on mid, and hey if they make it so you can limit exploding crates, well w/e…i just wont have a fun projectile anymore
As a former GS employee I can GUARANTEE you that it won’t be coming out in April, much less April 1st. Bet the RANCH on that.
I’m not going to start another items debate with the “serious” Smash players, but I will say that it seems to me that the reason that Melee w/ items was never explored thoroughly is because Smash community has been run by the wrong group of players. Y’all have been listening to the wrong group of people, which is the #1 reason why I refuse to take the Melee tournament scene seriously at all.
Imagine if the SF scene was run and influenced by the same vocal minority as the Smash players.
O. Sagat would be banned because spamming projectiles is too cheap.
Samurai Shodown 2 would never have been taken seriously because it has bombs and food that are “random”.
In Marvel Super Heroes, gems wouldn’t be allowed despite the fact that the whole game is SUPPOSED to revolve around the use of gems.
No Iron Man/War Machine infinites because they’re unfair.
Now, I’m not saying that some of the bans in Melee aren’t justified; many of them are simply because Melee is completely broken. Half the stages are poorly designed, and the battle system was too many stupid glitches and oversights.
I just don’t see how items would make the game’s balance and lack of “skill” any worse. If anything there would be nowhere to go but up. Useless characters like Bowser might actually become viable with items.
They adapted quite well believe it or not. The problem is actually the fact that items don’t have predictable spawn points or patterns infused with the exploding capsule. I know it seems like it doesn’t happen to often but when I play with items I see it quite enough to know that it can cause a player to lose a match just because of it happening.
For example, I am Ganondorf and I am down+throw someone and then they I plan to follow it up with a back air. Its a basic and solid combo. When items are on though, and on more than one occasion I have had a capsule spawn during my attack, hit me and cause me to explode.
It wasn’t just with that attack either, I have had it happen with simple tilts after I activate them. There is no way to predict where and what item is gonna fall and therefore it is never perfectly safe to do any attack that has a hitbox out out longer than 2-4 frames (the amount of frames between the visual sign of a spawn and when the item can be interacted with). It isn’t really possible to fully adapt to.
I love playing with items on but it doesn’t work in the long run with the exploding capsule in combination with having absolutely no pattern. Hopefully it won’t be as whacked out in Brawl (the removal of exploding capsule and stuff pretty much guarantees this).
It does suck when people completely refuse to play with items ever but oh well, they can do whatever they want. CyberAkuma pretty much covered everything else that could be said.
Please tell me the in depth history of item use in smash tourny history and the evolution of west and east tournament scene because unless you really know it you should never say that cause you’re taking a huge crap on lots of people that worked very hard in the smash tourny scene. To say such an ignorant statement is equivalent to saying Evo did a shitty job at trying to keep arcade cabinets.
Yeah, so? Can you not choose to stop your combo and block? If you were in the opposite position, would you still complain?
Isn’t that the PURPOSE of the items being in the game? To serve as random equalizers? To deter too much mindless rushdown?
If you see an item coming towards you, then you have to choose between continuing a combo and taking the risk of an explosion, or stopping and waiting to see what will come out.
Anything that makes players THINK more is only a good thing, in my opinion.
Um, how?
You act like items are some kind of omnipresent threat keeping you from attacking?
On normal levels, items pop up nowhere near the frequency of what you’re describing.
Honestly, if some vague, infrequent threat like an occasional exploding bomb makes you THAT paranoid to attack someone then maybe you have a future in DHS.
I just feel that items are not down well in Melee at all. I could go into more detail about it, but since most of the problems I had with them are no longer existing in Brawl I see no reason to discuss it in this topic. So I am just going to say a few things.
Yes, items don’t appear as hazards too much, but it is enough to make you lose a stock a during an otherwise good match and pretty much giving the other player a huge advantage for no reason.
And yes, when someone else dies from something randomly falling on them I do get disappointed because its just stupid to me. And you could say that if I wanted items to work more solid than I should just stick with something like power stone (which I like). I don’t see the problem in taking off items in melee when the basic options allow you to do so.
Basically I view Tournament Melee as a different game. It is a game that has quite a few players. Perhaps not as much as normal Melee but I like the game more. =/ I don’t see the problem with it.
I said fuck the scene, mostly because the tourney scene isn’t even what I’m talking about for the most part. I’m talking about the assholes who never win at the game, the WDing is the magnum opus of all techniques and never play with items because they’re for n00bs. You wouldn’t believe the shit I’ve heard.
“Items make the game kiddy”
“They take no skill”
“items like mines aren’t fair”
Fuck the smash fanbase. the majority of people haven’t even given alot of shit a chance. that’s why I stopped playing it.
I kept running into people who get frustrated because they refuse to learn how to deal with hammers, scopes and shit. So I know! Let’s turn the off and remove all that adaptability! Now anyone who takes the risks of playing with them is a n00b! yay!
I can understand when money is on the line, but c’mon. At an anime convention doing casuals?
btw: these people turn off the items and still lose.
Examples of how terrible the smash fanbase is: “Oh no! Wavedashing is out! that means n00bs will own us!”
“What about aniki and ken, who don’t really WD but still kill everyone?”
I dont believe it was made to deter “mindless” rushdown, like in any game, rushdown can be combated in various ways, so i think that If you’re the one getting rushed down, you shouldn’t be the one hoping for an item to drop just so you can “equalize” the match, u should be thinking about ways of spacing urself or using your level to your advantage.
I believe in high level play, if its the finals, people have traveled from coast to coast, and ends up losing a lot of money due to a random item that drops, that will cause chaos…I can see why “u should stop your combo for the risk of an explosion,” but the fact is, If players knew it was an explosion, for instance a proxy mine that was on the ground or such, players have the chance to be aware of it, and stop their actions from it, otherwise, it is just a player “HOPING” that this item is not a bomb…and translated, that is turned into Luck, and luck only gets you so far, If you ask any competitive player, one of the main things that makes a skillful player good, is consistency, and at tournament level, the person that should win is the person that has the most skill, NOT the person that has the most luck…so thus you can see why MLG doesn’t allow items, its because they would rather see skill vs skill, sure luck is a portion of the game, but when items drop every so often, Luck is seen more often.
i dont think that it matters where the items drop, in SSBM, people tend to go everywhere in a map
You kidding me? I thought all this time items were disabled because of random exploding containers. I want to try to play Brawl competitively but I hope they don’t turn off items.
jus read the stuff but yea im not totally against items, i’ll play with them casually, but i think in a tournament environment, they should be turned off…
I WD a good bit in SSBM, but its not as good as everyone makes it out to be, its good to bait out moves like with Luigi n such, but play a good falco, marth, or ganon, and ur jus gonna get poked or lazered out of WD my main is Jigglypuff, so i dont need to WD as often as other characters I think that maybe the people you played were jus trying to get better at the game so they stressed a no item rule so they could get ready for tourneys shrug
now you’re just ranting. Sure you may run into people that say, “LOL itemz r stoopid” and leave it at that but that doesn’t change the fact that for years items were used at the biggest smash events but were dropped because the game is better without them. I’ve gone into the history a few times in the last thread so I’m not about to go through it again.
Also about your statement on playing at something like an anime convention. You can cry about people not wanting to use items in friendlies with you but that’s like crying that people don’t want to play low tier teams with you in MvC2.
Why in the hell does anyone even want items in tournaments? Seriously, I thought it was common sense for competitive games to be as consistent as possible. So to willingly add in a random element is purely illogical. Players complain enough about minor inconsistencies in hit boxes and frames, just imagine how bad it would be with items considering they’re even more inconsistent. Honestly, the only players who want items in tournaments are the players who don’t know a great deal about the smash scene.
Lets face it, items will never be in smash tournaments because they’re simply too random, and players want consistency in their games. You already see how people complain about melee being broken, guess what they would say if we throw in items? “This game takes no skill”, “It’s all about luck”, “The game is too random”, “blah blah blah”.
Who the fuck cares about the history of item use in melee tournaments? What the hell? This is a brawl thread, and if the ‘powers that be’ ban items in that because they were banned in a totally separate 7 year old game, then I want no part of that community.
Well, items are more than likely going to be banned in Brawl also. This is pretty apparent even without playing the game. How do I know? Because they still work the same damn way as they did in Melee, as in completely random, which as stated before is not good for a competitive game. But of course, everyone is going to try them out first before any solid decision is made.
How can you generalize a whole fan base off of the hand full of people you played?
Because it wasn’t just a hand-full of people? You know, seeing as I never said it was?
Of course the ENTIRE fanbase can not possibly suck. But like 98% of the fans I’ve come across have all been like this. Halo and smash have the worst fanbases of all time.
I would like to meet this person.
I think that maybe the people you played were jus trying to get better at the game so they stressed a no item rule so they could get ready for tourneys shrug