Super Saikyo Dan Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
321

Properly spacing LK.Danku on wakeup is important in this matchup. You do it right, and it beats everything he does, minus crouching lights if the timing is just perfect. At which point, you should mix up with meaty normals. If he backflips, you can punish on reaction with all kinds of things. Corner him and rack up the damage.

Still. Mid-range game is kind of balls. Fish for sweeps and EX Danku. Don’t be afraid to FADC Gadouken on block to keep yourself in tight.

The thing about the matchup is that it gets worse and worse as the Vega sees holes in Danku pressure. You’ve got to fall back on meaties an frame-traps to keep them scared.

322

I got some tips against Vega

Flying Barcelona Attack

1 - You can focus to avoid cross ups, focus lvl 2 to combo or U1. But vega can grab you, so dont get predictable.
2 - Neutral Jump HK beats clean and vega cannot grab you if you got the timming.
3 - On your Wakeup Reversal Ex krk, this is a desperate move cuz most off time will wiff, but still a option.

BackFlip

1- OptionSelect HK Danku, most of the time this dont hit, but you ll be on Vega face :slight_smile:
2 - Walk a little bit Ex Danku on reaction

Vega have the worst wakeup game ever so, after a KD jump HK, Hold defend for a moment, OS HK Danku. Beats backflip, blocks anything else.

LK.Danku mixups all the time!!!

For me Vega is just like Dhalsim, its hard to get in and he got better footsies, BUT once you corner him, its over :slight_smile:

323

Difference is that Dhalsim has a teleport and Claw has a meh back flip. BTW, is it worth it to use U1 instead of U2 to punish (insert move here)??

El Cubano Loco is in my area and I should definitely harass him for some knowledge. o_O

324

Vega’s backflip is enough to get him out of trouble if you’re not expecting it. I’m not sure there’s much that Shissou can punish other than a blocked Ultra but Shissou still has its uses as a harder punish after Focus crumple and trickier and more expensive combos but still hit-confirmable and doable.

325

Both his ultras are pretty lack luster imo, I think Haoh needs its invul back, not send Dan full screen and be stronger while Shissho needs to go farther, needs more invul for AA and for going through fireballs/reacting to stuff/punishing things and also they could make it juggle but thats really unlikely.

326

Shouldn’t really be using Haoh in a situation where it’s not a guaranteed hit anyways but it should at the very least trade and not lose out-right. Trading would be more helpful in the long-run too. It should however not lose hits to distance and all 6 hits should be juggleable. It’s too slow too.
More invulnerability won’t help Shissou for AA, problem is really start-up time and that he runs forward whilst doing it. Works as an AA at the peak of their jump from a certain distance but that’s so fiddly. Making it as good as Dudley’s Rolling Thunder for anti-fireballs would be pretty cool (not for me, I can’t react fast enough at that range).

All wishful thinking, I doubt there’ll ever be another update and if there is we won’t get shit. Think top of the list would be to give Dan his 1000 stun back (or more) anyways.

327

~REQUESTING HONDA MATCH KNOWLEDGE~

Normally, I play against one strong Honda player and that’s where all my technology, knowledge, and rage comes from. With the additional buff to Honda (jab headbutt) getting in on him is really difficult; almost retardedly dumb. Honda’s got (correct me when I’m wrong) two higher priority ground pokes (s.HK and s.HP), one really good air-to-air (nj.HP), ex.Headbutt on wake-up (safe like some ridiculous analogy I can’t explain), and U2.

If I were losing to the aforementioned Honda in tournament I wouldn’t get mad, but when I get scared to go in on some scrub/casual Honda or even LOSE IN TOURNAMENT to a semi-decent Honda that doesn’t even play SF at all, all I can do is channel that Real Rage and throw a chair. I didn’t actually do that, but I did knock over a few stools and raged.

Advice?

328

Ha ha. Not really. I wrote a guide to stupid internet Hondas back on page 2, you could try that, though it’s pretty barebones and doesn’t really explain much. Not sure if LP.Headbutt stuffs meaty DPs and properly-spaced Dankus now.

I highly recommend baiting full-screen Headbutts with neutral jumps if you think the opponent is capable of such stupidity. Jump a lot, the play the game properly for an instant, then go back to jumping all full-retard. It keeps Honda from just doing whatever he wants online.

Also, baits. Lots of them. To start, you want it to be the default action. Jump-back HK beats Headbutt clean, but loses to Buttslam. If you’re lucky, he’ll get self-conscious about headbutts and you can go to town on him.

Taunt him, too, if he’s turtling. If he’s there beside you, taunt him IRL. You need to rile him as much as possible. You want Honda to approach. If you get the lifelead, play super-defensively, but don’t worry if you still lose to his approach.

Honda matches for me usually always go to timeout or around the ten-second mark. When you have meter for safe pressure, do it, but don’t be in any hurry to get in. Just break his will to random headbutt, then play properly.

329

If he’s actually poking at you with random s.HK and s.HP, that’s Focus bait. Absorb one and crumple him to get in for free, then start throwing out meaty Knees (beats non-EX Sumo Splash, dodges Headbutts when spaced right) or doing crossups while he’s down (beats/dodges everything except perfectly timed auto-correct EX Headbutt). If jab Headbutt is being used to anti-air you, throw off his timing with a mid-air Knee to alter your jump arc. You’ll wind up going over him with neither of you able to properly punish, but it can get him out of his rhythm. If you use EX Danku in midair to dodge a jab Headbutt, you should land behind him able to punish before he recovers.

To have success in this matchup, you need to manage Honda’s meter. Without meter, once you knock him down he’s helpless, so long as you’re wary of those Sumo Splashes (lots of startup invincibility, but the invinciblity does go away before it starts hitting, which is why meaty Knee and its active frames of doom beats it). Once he gets meter, you need to figure out how to bait out the EX Headbutt/EX Splash and then get back to putting on the pressure.

One last tip, if he’s doing a lot of nj.HP, advance along the ground. That move will beat pretty much anything in the air, but it physically cannot hit crouching characters, similar to Zangief’s Lariat change. If you get close enough by moving up on the ground, you can time a c.MK to hit him as he lands and is vulnerable, and cancel into EX Danku for a knockdown or Gadoken > FADC > whatever for bigger damage.

330

Imo all these buffs would be nice for Dan, I’ve never really had too much trouble punishing with Shisso uBuraiken though but I guess I focus it too much for my own good anyway.
Other buffs I would like to see.
-Taunts safe on hit and are slightly negative on block or taunts can be cancelled into specials: they made it do that taunts now build meter on hit/block but since they are so unsafe even if you land one it’s completely pointless other than for trolling purposes.
-Fix the horizontal hitbox on his nj.:hp: :Fixes errors with the move not properly landing after a KRK FADC unless the opponent is in the corner or you get lucky.
-Decrease the total frames on Dan’s forward dash: Dan gets great distance of his dashes compared to most of the cast but unfortunately for him the animation for his foward dash is quite long (19 frames), if the total frame count was reduced, then this would allow Dan to be able to get in on his opponents much easier improving the character significantly, it would also make some of Dan’s tighter FADC links easier to land consistently.
-Give crouching :hp: a proper purpose: Give an actual reason for us to use this move besides it dealing a small 5 extra damage than his close standing :hp:, increase it’s anti air hitbox/make it juggle like Sagats fwd:hk: or do whatever, I just want to see this move gain some sort of purpose other than after landing a heavy jump in.

331

Got tips on Deejay? Feels like the hardest matchup when the player is competent: slide avoids the jump LK dankuu, u cannot crossup him, you cannot pressure him, he can zone you out pretty well. His dive kick makes it harder than Guile if you ask me. Seems like the only thing you got to deal damage on him is your EX Dankuu. Never had a full super or not even 3 bars against him.

332

Hes easier than Guile, Deejay’s fireballs have more recovery so you can actually jump over them. Plus, cr.mk goes under deejays upkicks. You can use that to your advantage in this match while applying pressure.

You can focus his knee jump or uppercut it.

I don’t ussually jump at Deejay at all on his wake up, havent figured out any safe jumps on im really.

333

I can imagine you turning to the guy, spanking your ass and saying “chou yoyuu ssu!” :rofl:

That’s such an annoying move, it trades with KRK but it is a trade in your favour. They do it so early that they instantly recover on landing so unless you do a perfectly timed FA3 the focus probably won’t be of much use :frowning: Maybe a sneaky quick FA1 back dash so they can’t even see you charge it but I get the feeling they’ll end up jabbing your out of the focus or something stupid.

334

Sup guys. Been busy with being lazy/school/work/rediscovering card games, so I came back with a curious question; has Dan’s j.LP been buffed or something?

~~
Shout outs to YogaFlame24 for posting up the vids.
~~

ss3104 vs. Upnushing (Dictator)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]VV5yaRR7hRI[/media]

What I want to draw attention to is when ss3104 (Real Hope to Dan players everywhere) consciously does j.LP (0:34, 0:42, 1:14, 1:54) for some reason. I was under the assumption that j.LK has a better hitbox/safer hurtbox for Dan to be using, so this got me wondering if this could be some secret tech that hasn’t been discussed before. Is this a really good air-to-air overall or is it just match-up specific?

hazil vs. GamerBee (Adon)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]M_zJGT0xIyQ[/media]

Different player, since conscious button presses. Admittedly, this isn’t a good example as it only occurs once (0:55) but could there be something that we don’t know? Maybe the guy was just fumbling buttons?

ss3104 vs. Sensiki (Evil Ryu)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]mW3NkX69vLA[/media]

Again, conscious button presses (0:50, 1:22) being shown. Though in this case, the first j.LP trades with an SRK while the second one doesn’t have a follow-up.

Thoughts??

335

Jumping lp and jumping lk are both good, just used in different matchups and situations. Jump lp hits a little bit more in front of Dan, so it’s useful if you’re jumping from particular ranges, useful against characters who can’t hit underneath Dan, and better air to air when the opponent’s jump is as high or higher than Dan’s. Jump lk hits lower and has less of a hittable hitbox underneath Dan, so it’s better when you need that, like on characters who can hit Dan’s butt, like dragon punches or characters jumping underneath him.

336

I end up using j.lk as an air to air, a jump in and as an anti air at times. j.lp just feels all around worse, and ussually gets beaten in those situations.

337

Time for another one of these!



CHAR      RATIO
Abel      6-4
Adon      5-5
Akuma      4-6
Blanka    4-6
Boxer      4-6
Cammy      5-5
Chun      3-7
Claw      5-5
Cody      6-4
Dan        5-5
DeeJay    5-5
Dhalsim    5-5
Dictator  5-5
Dudley    5-5
Evil      5-5
Fei        4-6
Fuerte    6-4
Gen        5-5
Gouken    6-4
Guile      5-5
Guy        5-5
Hakan      5-5
Hawk      3-7
Honda      4-6
Ibuki      5-5
Juri      4-6
Ken        4-6
Makoto    6-4
Oni        6-4
Rose      5-5
Rufus      6-4
Ryu        4-6
Sagat      4-6
Sakura    5-5
Seth      4-6
Viper      4-6
Yang      6-4
Yun        5-5
Zangief    3-7

Mostly changed in favor of more even matchups. I don’t think Dan does as poorly against Ryu, Sagat, Fei, Ibuki, Yun, and Yang anymore. I don’t think he does as well against Claw, Hakan, or Rose. I don’t know why I thought Dan-Seth was 5-5 before; I feel like 4-6 might be too kind, might actually be 3-7.

Can someone else do their take as well? I think it’d be fun to see but no one else has taken a stab at it in a long long time.

338

I’d like to see your reasoning for 6-4 Yang , Rufus, and Cody. Also like to see why Guile is 5-5 (feel it as 4-6) and Hakan 5-5 (feel it as 6-4) Agree on Seth possibly being a 3-7.

339

I’m just not sure why I should be worried about Yang now. His buttons are slower, his movements are slower, he’s less damaging, and his mixups are worse. I feel like I can get in or keep him out better than he can do either, and I think my mixups are stronger and more damaging.

I’ve always thought that Dan beats Rufus. I actually think there’s some consensus among good Rufus players that Dan beats Rufus as well. Again, I’m not super worried about dive kicks. I like my mixups against Rufus and I don’t like his escapes. I have a high stun output character and Rufus gets stunned easily. Like against Yang, I think Dan can get in and keep Rufus out better than Rufus can do either.

I feel like Cody and Dan are just slight tweaks on the same character; they both want to get in and pressure up close, but Cody is less mobile, has worse defense, is better at max range, and has higher damage, whereas Dan is more mobile, has better defense, is worse from far, and does a bit less damage. Cody’s upsides are important in lots of matchups, but in a matchup of similar character styles, I’d rather have the one with the dragon punch fadc, faster walk speed, far st mk, midscreen ex danku, and jump air lk danku/jump lk/jump hk entrance.

I guess my Guile rating might be more about me than the character. I’ve just found that I tend to understand how to beat Guiles: stay on the ground until Guile has to stay at a certain point on screen relative to you, then do fun things. I recognize that Guile has things to say about that, which is why I put it at even, but I’ve never felt like I have a disadvantage.

My Hakan rating might be kinda similar. I think I probably understand what he’s capable of better than most people in the world, and that means I’m kinda scared of him. He has solid tools for dealing with Dan’s pressure, including an amazing backdash, back dnc st mp, focus back dnc, antiair focus dnc, u1 or u2 (each of which blows up an important tool for Dan), and coward crouch. Also, I’m scared of Hakan’s pressure, even though I’ve only ever played against 1-2 people who can actually do it. I know people who expect Hakan to be top 5 in the game in a couple years, and I don’t think they’re very far off. At the same time, Dan blows Hakan up when Hakan is dry and doesn’t yet have ultra, so there’s definitely a period where Dan can really do well. And Dan’s pressure is still pretty good. But I wouldn’t be surprised to find that Hakan beats Dan eventually.

340

As a Hakan main, I’ll give my two cents.

I think Hakan-Dan is 4.5-5.5 (Dan’s favor). It’s a reasonable matchup, and it’s definitely winnable for Hakan. However, he has no answer for corner knee pressure. Also, I don’t feel as though “Dan blows Hakan up when Hakan is dry and doesn’t yet have ultra”. Being oiled does three major things for Hakan; gives the ability to FADNC (Focus attack, dash, normal cancel the dash), increases the range on Oil Rocket, and reduces damage. Increased range for Oil Rocket doesn’t help a ton in this matchup because Dan’s backdash is quick enough to make it whiff wet or dry. Reduced damage…yeah, it’s helpful, but Hakan’s HP and stun are still decently high enough without it that it’s not a crucial, deciding factor. FADNC gets beaten by a lot of Dan’s tools (Dan kicks, any normal xx KRK or xx Fireball, etc.), so I feel like Hakan’s wet or dry status does not change the matchup much.

TL;DR: I think the matchup is slightly in Dan’s favor.