Nope!!! They are pushed too far out of range!!! That’s the beauty of it. If you have them in the corner, you will have to use a different set up b/c they will not be pushed back far enough, but the set up itself is still good to begin a corner mix up, but I’d rather use and EX Senku and combo from there my opp is in/near the corner, it’s just more practical IMO.
I started working on this set up in vanilla when I wanted to have a few tricks in the bag for some untech set ups, which I have quite a few now.
I haven’t been able to land the lp hado > cr. roundhouse on small characters like El. F., so for his hit box type use… J. FP > Cr. Fp > EX Palm FADC > j. mp > cr. roundhouse for untech > Meaty Denjin. If you try to use the lp. hado > cr. roundhouse it will push him back too far and the cr. roundhouse will whiff.
Edit: Here’s the same set up if you have 1 EX bar or if you just rather be conservative and save the EX meter.
J. FP > Cr. Fp > EX Palm Dash Forward > Cr. Roundhouse (Untech) > Meaty Denjin. This can net you 840 Stun.
Actually the Denjin can be used almost after any untech knock down provided the conditions were right.
Well, of course, finding opportunities to use Denjin isn’t hard at all since there are so many simple ways to combo into it. But the tricky part is executing it in a combo or string with the right spacing that ensures a massive amount of stun to make it worth choosing over Shin-Sho. And you and Raun have done a lot of that here, so thanks for the awesome contribution
Keep in mind the fact that you can cross people up with Gouken Flip Dive kick into your BNB combos and Denjin set ups. You can even set some one up with EX GF at point blank range and pull it off, it even works on a standing Sagat.
For example you would, GF dive kick cross up > cr. lp > tatsu FADC > Denjin. Against crouching and smaller characters you could GF dive kick cross up > cr. fp > EX Senku > Denjin, or GF dive kick cross up > cr. fp > EX Senku > Dash forward cr. Roundhouse > Meaty Denjin, or GF dive kick cross up > cr. fp > EX Senku FADC > j. mp > opt. lp hado > cr. roundhouse > Denjin.
Your best chances of trying to land it is after a blocked Dive kick, you’d just transition to > Cr. Fp > mk GF Cross up. If you have the EX meter, you can land a blocked GF Dive kick > EX GF as soon as you hit the ground to attempt the cross up, since the EX Version automatically puts you in the right position.
I think just stating ‘do a crossup dive kick to set them up’ is a bit self defeating, because that too needs setting up. Another thread dedicated to it? No need. There’s loads of setups already in the option select thread and safe jump thread.
All forced block setups for Denjin Hadouken are entirely dependant on the matchup. Developing the knowledge of all the other cast members options and the reasons why they may be able to escape will only help aid in creating actual setups that ACTUALLY set the opponent up for damage no matter what they do. The same way Dhalsim would.
Maybe it’s just me but, other than fully blocked Denjin setups, there’s nothing imaginative about landing denjin. Yeah, the training room combos are nice but other than 2-3 more options, denjin combos are the same as the old three common shinsho combos.
Denjin is a setup ultra. Setups pre-block, setups post-block, and (mainly) setups post-hit. Safe jumps, option selects, baits, etc. Get that one follow-up into stun. But currently, half the thread is kinda treating it (or complaining) like it’s shinsho.
The Denjin and Gouken’s Vortex go hand in hand, if your base your game style around un-techs then Denjin can be your new best friend.
I think one of the problems for Gouken in Vanilla was people weren’t afraid to rush him down and attack him. If you land a blocked meaty Denjin, these mofo’s start running and it really puts Gouken being risky in his favor since even a Dive kick that traded hit’s could mean that they are stunned, and hopefully I’ll have at least 1 EX bar to work that ass.
I think we need to be discussing more on the character specific follow ups we would like to do after a Blocked Dejin vs. Denjin that hits.
I’m trying to find a safe jump setup after a denjin in the corner. Specifically, something that puts the opp back in the corner. The best I’ve found is after a point-blank corner denjin (after, for example, ex palm > lp palm > denjin), you can jump over the opp, wait a fraction of a second (or whiff a cr.lp), then neutral jump HP. Timing is a bit wonky, though.
I’d really like to know if there’s someway to set up a DF dive kick in this situation, cuz I haven’t found one yet.
What moves among the cast whiff long enough to allow a full Denjin to connect? I can’t think of anything practical… people doing random ultras, Gouken’s RH tatsu…
If Ken Ultra 2’s you in the corner on wake up, you can EX GF out behind him and blow him to bits. Cody has a long Ultra as well, if Makoto whiffs she does all of this extra shit but I’m not sure how long it lasts.
I guess the big question is How long does it take to start up > charge > release a full denjin? If we get that, we can just go through the frame data and find out the start up and recovery times on their ultras. We’d at least know how many hits we could get.
I’ve actually hit people with the full Denjin b/c they mis-timed the release. LOL. That cracks me up.
True. Plus a reasonable human reaction time to factor in with that (may not be really necessary). I think this would be analogous to the Akuma forum’s Raging Demon punish list for each character.
The damage and combo I posted clearly is training only or combo video – no one will land a full in the corner. I have landed a fully charged one (mid screen) and followed up with palm.
It’s probably the most reasonable setup you can have with denjin, honestly. It’s a shame you have to charge it for the damage. Abel can hold his new U2 (which is REALLY good), why can’t Gou get full damage/stun and just use charge as a mental piece to get the opponent to jump at the wrong time?
So true. In 3rd Strike the charge time made sense, as it was unblockable. The damage is so weak from an uncharged Denjin I have a hard time justifying picking it over Shin Sho.
In the middle of the stage, after ex palm > denjin:
immediately neutral jump, dash, MK DF dive kick at top of jump. Similar to the safe jump dive kick setups discussed earlier in the DF thread, if dive kick is done at earliest frame(s), it will whiff as the opp isn’t standing yet.
Still testing out stun counting for those one-n-done post-denjin mixes, especially after the safe jumps
I’m really enjoying the Denjin ultra. It has really improved my game in terms of using Gouken without overly relying on Shin Shoryuken as a crutch. I actually managed to dizzy people on several occasion yesterday and I think it shocked people because the damage potential was actually decent. You have to be quite aggressive and throw fireballs to give you time so that their stun value doesn’t readily drop. If the stun system was similar to Third Strike where your stun wouldn’t rapidly drop this ultra would be far more effective but that just gives people a further challenge. It’s like what some people have already said, Shin Shoryuken to win but Denjin for fun in a sense. One big problem I find with Denjin is the amount of ex bars I have to waste in order to make it effective, and even then some characters are agile enough to run away and lower their stun but I find they usually freak out as I calmly walk towards them forcing them to do a reversal or just get thrown by me_^)
The most common combo’s I use are jump in fierce, standing fierce, ex palm, FADC, double hit jumping mp, and Denjin which is a lot more reliable than FADC to charged Denjin but the damage output is superior in terms of stun etc. One last note i noticed is that Cody seems to bounce a lot harder than some of the other cast members from Denjin.
That’s something you need to decide for yourself. It has several applications, but if it doesn’t fit your playstyle and/or match up then Shin-Sho is the better Ultra.
Shin-Sho= More Damage and Less Set Ups
Denjin= More Set Ups and Less Damage
If you want to become a better player you’ll need to rely less on your ultra imo. If you like to have fun by winning then I would recommend Shin Shoryuken. In a nutshell, Shin Shoryuken is better. Denjin suffers from too many problems. A lot of times you can’t just hold the Denjin after a knockdown and hope it times itself well. For example, if you do a back throw and know you’re going to miss with a Denjin holding it will make you throw the fireball just before they get up because they can’t get up quick. If you do an ex palm and do a Denjin too late and decide to hold there’s no way you’ll hit them because if you don’t know if they get up quick or not and if they don’t get up quick you once again release the fireball at the worst time.
The strongest FADC combo that gives 880 stun can be done without focus canceling in the corner BUT the timing is so strict doing a jumping mp to Denjin becomes the more viable option. That Cody bounce has me curious, I should see which people bounce off the wall harder to know if they’re easier to juggle. Everything helps.
