I may have been wrong about it working on Ryu? My bad.
It definitely works though. I just did it against Rog.
That’s some fast butter churning, I must say.
This is actually why Denjin is the only thing i still like about the char in super. Raun’s is apparently different, but my experience is that i never really won matches with shinsho’s damage alone, and still had to work the rest off. On top of that, shinsho was always annoying to actually land with the gargantuan tech window of the backthrow, which made it more of a risk to try instead of going for the more guaranteed fpxxsenku punish that can work so well for denjin.
So to me the tradeoff of damage for potential damage after the ultra is a no-brainer – i’ll take it in an instant. No one really needs to care about shinsho before or after you use it. If it sucked less as an AA, or if Gouken were more flexible in general, it’d be a different story. But since it’s just raw damage i have absolutely no use for it anymore; even off a backthrow i’ll still appreciate the stun just because the ability to make the other person nervous enough to fuck up is the only chance Gouken has anymore.
I haven’t ground up enough points to play anyone serious yet and endless match is endless 0pp scrubbery still, but so far i’m actually liking denjin against most chars. Gouken still has his fireballs, so i don’t find keeping the other person in a non-neutral state that hard especially if they have trouble with mp fireballs; Gief’s still really screwed. And if Sagat wants to try pulling fullscreen FB crap after eating a denjin, that’s just peachy.
if you got as many backthrows as i do you might change your opinion.
i get backthrow after demon flip kick, when teching, as whiff punish and on their wake up a lot.
if you go for backthrow like you would go for a counterhit, you will often grab the opening frames of jabs or option select tech shorts.
that is an untechable backthrow.
if you are walking backwards and teching with backthrow after blocking two short moves and they go for a tickthrow, you will often walk out of range of their throw and backthrow their whiff animation.
if my opponent gives me a very small opening for a whiff punish, backthrow is awesome.
if you can get the 5 hit denjin out of backthrow, i think it is comparable to shin sho.
i just have a terrible time getting the 5 hit on line.
getting a backthrow near the corner into ex palm > denjin is freaking sweet though!
Tested this out… Akuma’s throw would win, but I did discover you can place a well timed cl. st Hk on Akuma before he lands his throw or palm in his Gouken Specific trap. The window is prob 1-2 frames, right after he starts his animation, but it gets him off of your ass and you don’t have to worry about using any of your EX meter. I didn’t have time to test this vs. his dive kick, I’m assuming it will be the same result or it would trade.
If Akuma tries to palm you on your Wake up and you Denjin, he eats it as a counter hit.
akuma should be hitting his df palm meaty, making cs.hk impossible.
he should also be landing df throw within 2 frames of your wakeup, making cs.hk impossible.
i think you were timing your df’s improperly if you were beating them with wake up cs.hk.
Yeah… I just re-tested it and you’re right.
However a wake up Denjin still counter hit’s or trades with his meaty palm… of course he can still throw you. 
And you can follow up the counter hit Denjin on his palm with a cr. roundhouse or whatever if he’s in the corner.
Well, here are a couple setups I’ve found work well.
- Backthrow > Backdash > Full Denjin.
You activate the Denjin as soon as you can, just before their body hits the ground is the visual cue. This setup makes the Full Denjin always connect, they can’t jump out, their choices are block, or try and Reversal out. Some Reversals can go through and still hit you, namely Ryu’s EX DP, but most will be out of range to hit you, or not have enough invincibility. Don’t do this against Sagat, ever, as MP/HP/EX TU all go through and hit you. Against Cammy, delay activating Denjin slightly, otherwise you only get 1 hit if she Reversal Cannon Spikes.
- Backthrow > EX Hado > Denjin.
You want both bolts of EX Hado to hit, then when you start charging Denjin is key. If you start it just as the opponent is about to hit the ground, you can react to whether they tech or not. If they do, release Denjin, if they don’t, charge it to full. This setup keeps you out of range of almost all Reversals, and allows you to punish most of the ones that can go through. The downside to this setup is the timing of Denjin, due to some characters and their slower wakeup times Blanka it’s very unreliable against certain characters.
i don’t think you guys are utilizing unblockable ultra setups with denjin… think about it :bgrin:
i think the good wakeup options vs. akuma’s df pressure on wake up are block, jump, backdash and ex tatsu.
block and jump are the basic 50/50 options that dont punish akuma and attempt to escape.
backdash punishes df throw with (c.hp xx lp. palm) or (c.hp xx lp. fireball > fadc > ??)
but it loses to df palm, option select tatsu > srk.
ex tatsu punishes df palm option select tatsu and df throw but whiffs on properly timed palms without option select.
you have to consider that most of akuma’s df jump ins are going to be palms as well, because they are so safe.
you are going to have to be more descriptive if you want anyone to know what you are talking about, unless of course, you dont know what you are talking about and are being cryptic to avoid looking foolish.
as far as i know, the only way to set up an unblockable ultra is with a fireball on screen on the first frame of their wakeup when you ignite ultra.
you cannot ignite denjin when you have a fireball on screen.
I think is good to know for the times you whiff your Ultra or something you’d still have some type of set up in the bag; but I just don’t see the advantage to missing my back throw on purpose just to ignite an Ultra than can be blocked, evaded, or reversed.
Yeah, that’s the big drawback to this setup, you’re taking a chance for Stun+more damage over guaranteed damage. In the long run, it’s usually better to take the guaranteed damage.
There should be another thread called “WTF Round already over?!? - Shinshoryuken setups”
It would be the better of the two threads.
yeah, I’m still a shin-shoryu user. I tend to find myself much more in a situation where I wish I was using shin shoryu vs. denjin. even when landing a non-grounded denjin, i’d rather put myself into a reset that’ll lead into a 200 stun demon flip grab. I’ve been landing those quite often now since dive kick is completely useless now. If I do land a grounded denjin though, it’d most likely be from some sort of fireball war or during any move the ultra will beat through invincibility and rarely I would find myself far enough to follow up from landing the denjin. I guess it’s really just my playstyle.
+1 for “WTF Round already over?!? - Shinshoryuken setups”.
I have to agree about the shin Shoryuken being a more viable ultra but I think as time goes on and people continue experimenting with denjin we could see some really spectacular and highly practical set ups and follow ups. Or at least I’m hoping.
The post above is the only reason why I still use it.
Ok, maybe also because it´s fun.
Btw, denjin >>> shin sho vs seth.
if you have 3 bars and half ultra vs seth with denjin anywhere or 1 bar on the corner, he´s dead, where as with denjin he still has one chance.
I don’t know if anyone posted this yet, but it’s gives you 985 stun and 470 (plus Denjin chip damage) anywhere. it also pretty much guarantees a next hit stun on characters like Gief and T-Hawk. Here it goes…
J. FP > Cr. Fp > EX Palm FADC > j. mp > lp. hado > cr. roundhouse for untech > Meaty Denjin. My Sig- Denjin set up.
Edit: The top value was for counter hit, standard is 423 damage and 935 Stun, still very good damage and great stun.
does anyone notice denjin doesn´t seem to scale the after stun damage as much as normal hits?
Great combo, doesn’t seem to be terribly difficult execution. Since I’m not at home to try it out in training, figure I might as well ask first - after the cr. hk, does it put you in a position where ex-srk can still hit you on wake up?