Did the guy say that lp palm had to be a counter hit for the combo to work?
AA Jab Palm. Well, doesn’t matter what version if you’re dash cancelling it really.
Ya, palm, FADC, Denjin works midscreen. It can be fierce palm, against a grounded opponent, whatever, it can work.
It may only be vs the bigger characters? It works against Ryu I think.
It’s just really hard because you have to do everything so fast and the palm has to hit so deeply.
AAAAAAcctually, wasn’t that sure about this so tried it again. Couldn’t even get it to work as an AA Senkugoshoha. I mean if their movement is stopped by the corner in any way then it’ll hit for sure, but pretty certain this doesn’t work midscreen after the amount of tries I gave it.
ok, i played with denjin for a week.
in my opinion, shin sho is the better choice against everyone for the following reasons:
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there is no match where denjin is better than shin sho, but there are a few where shin sho is better than denjin. it is very hard to maintain enough pressure on zangief to reach 1100 stun. against bison, i simply end up blocking for most of the match. if i get an opening, i want to empty into him with shin sho, not watch him escape all my pressure with his ex psycho crusher. against gen, sakura, viper and deejay it is very hard to land denjin after normal palms in the corner, which takes away one of the main attractions of the ultra.
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i play exclusively online and denjin combos are a little harder than shin sho combos. they are not terribly hard, but there is some delicate charge timing involved in taking full advantage of denjin after backthrow or raw after ex palm in the corner. offline i can land (backthrow > 5 hit denjin) 10 out of 10 times. online i get the 4 hit or whiff more often than i get the 5 hit. there are two times you need to be accurate with denjin, when you ignite it and when you release it. you only need to be accurate with shin sho once.
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denjin travels very slowly and pauses when it encounters other fireballs. it will never blow through another fireball for the hit. they always have time to block. that takes away one of the major advantages that a super fireball has over a super uppercut.
i feel like they were just a little too cautious with denjin’s design.
it increases stun on block, but doesnt stun on block.
it can only combo after wall bounce if it hits a standing opponent, but it cant blow through fireballs on reaction because it pauses when it hits other fireballs.
i have no idea why they made it vulnerable to throws.
At least i don’t feel bad anymore about wifing Denjin after backthrow because i try to get the 5 hit one. In training mode i almost always got it, but online it mostly fails. Now, my execution isn’t really the best so good to hear someone with a better one also has these problems.
Not to say that I’m not already favoring Shinsho over Denjin, but this is the case with almost all Ultras. Picking one boils down to the matchup. Picking a stun ultra on higher-stun characters is like picking an anti-fireball ultra on a character with no fireball. It’s just not gonna be effective, but it doesn’t mean that anti-fireball ultra isn’t useful in other matchups.
As for the other factors, using a slow low-damage 4-hit fireball in a fireball war never seemed like a good idea. And while online is how the majority of us play, I don’t think lag is a valid way to grade something in the long run.
Going on theory (again), I think Denjin’s sole purpose is to hit it once (actually hit, not block it, since I still think blocked Denjin is meh), gain that untechable knockdown, then stun the opp on the very next guess as they get up. Against low-stun characters, that opportunity would happen after virtually any Denjin combo because their stun is likely gonna be in the 700s. And the untechable knockdown ensures a guessing game unless they’ve got a free get-out-of-jail-free wakeup escape.
Yes, it’s a guess, and if they guess right, then that meh Denjin damage was for naught. The tradeoff is that you give up great guaranteed damage for stupid potential damage, but the bonus is that you get an ultra that you don’t need to FADC mid-screen to combo into and the guess for that stupid damage is almost always there when you land it.
Just my theory.
i noticed that denjin was ok when i was going to win anyway.
shin sho would have been fine in those situations too.
when i am in trouble against a player that can beat me, shin sho will steal rounds on 1 guess whereas denjin would fall short time and time again.
this is for me though, i am not the ultimate denjin god or anything.
there could be some really cool stuff about denjin that i dont understand.
as far as online being the valid measure of a strat or ultra choice, for me it has to be.
100% of my playtime is online.
i state that plainly in this forum to make sure that tournament players know where i am coming from when i discuss strategy (though simplified techniques that are reliable in latency tend to be reliable under tournament pressure too.)
i would be a fool to ignore the reality of lag when it is a factor in every game that i play.
i dont want to be that guy that complains about lag after every lag loss.
i want to win in the lag if it happens and offer my condolences to the unfortunate loser.
that is why i favor basic techniques.
i know that there are many other players who read these boards that play exclusively online as well.
we can all agree that winning is a lot more fun than whining, so it is no good to pretend that latency is beneath us.
The way I see it, U1 is free damage, U2 is a chance at more damage. In serious play you can’t afford to give away a round because you hope to stun and finish them later.
basically, but denjin also has a few more setups so your palms become more powerful near the corner and j.mp becomes more threatening.
honestly what turned me off denjin was getting my teeth kicked in by bison for the last few days.
i cant maintain pressure on that character very well.
i would get a late game backthrow when losing and then whiff the 5 hit denjin when a shin sho would have landed and won.
I’d say that Denjin isn’t good for the Bison matchup. Even with less than avg stun, he’s got teleport and ex pc to get away from pressure.
Also, thinking about it, I’m not even sure if using Denjin after any given backthrow is any good. As I said before, Denjin’s worth seems to be “hit then single guess to stun.” After a backthrow or a j.mp on a fresh character, no one’s gonna be anywhere close to stun, and the damage you’re getting isn’t really good at all, especially when the ultra meter isn’t full. Weird to selectively choose when you want to use your ultra after a backthrow with Gouken.
But, my constant disclaimer is that this is all theory. I do favor Shinsho over Denjin, and, to be honest, I’m not even sure what low-stun matchups he can really press a post-Denjin guess in (Guile? Viper?). But the game is still early, so who knows.
Don’t like denjin either, am sticking to it because I’m bored of the shin-sho.
And no, they are not gonna patch anything with the championship mode patch, so yeah, prepare to keep the shin sho, and hope someone finds out something cool about the denjin, which is as of now, is quite lacking. They really should have made you able to follow up in all situations(ok, maybe not with super, cr. hp, lp palm, denjin into super would be close to a death combo on seth lol.
fadc
i read through this thread and didnt find anyone trying this simple combo.
this is a bnb easy combo that can actually be used i matches without fear of dropping it.
you dont need to fadc after expalm to land denin, but if you do you can charge it for a nice little bonuse of stun/dmg
jhp crhp xx expalm FADC charged denjin
this gives you enough time to charge up the denjin and since the fadc brings you real close to where the opponent drops its easy to time the release.
it does 820 stun, which will stun seth without any other hits, but could possibly instantly stun the rest of the cast if they are carrying a little stun already.
it takes three ex bars but if you have them and you think you can stun em…its a fairly easy combo to land.
yeah, maybe we all got blind by the fact you can do it without fadc that we forgot that you can charge more if you do.
how many hits you can charge it to and whats the damage(with and without the j.hp if possible)?
the fadc version midfield is basically the corner version with charge instead of additional hits.
(nj.hp > sc.hp xx ex palm > denjin 4) = 478/760
(nj.hp > sc.hp xx ex palm > fadc > denjin 5) = 514/820
(nj.hp > sc.hp xx ex palm > fadc > denjin 6) = 548/880
fadc to 5 hit is reliable online, but 6 hit is a gamble.
the 5 hit version is an additional 36 damage and 60 stun for 2 bars essentially.
offline the 6 hit version is very reliable and you get an additional 70/120 for 2 bars, which is really good.
whenever i feel like winning, i pick shin sho. shin sho wins rounds, plain and simple.
denjin might be better than shin sho against akuma, which is one of gouken’s tougher matchups imo.
it isnt terribly hard to walk akuma to the corner if you are defending jump-ins well.
(j.mp > denjin) and (hp. fireball > mp. palm > denjin) could be reliable sources of damage.
I’m not sure of this, but if Akuma is doing his little Gouken Specific mix up / vortex, can the Shin Sho beat it since it’s invincible on start up? Or b/c Gouken can be thrown it wouldn’t matter.
if akuma does df throw, shin sho will connect.
if akuma does df palm - option select tatsu, shin sho should connect but the ultra freeze might queer the deal and allow akuma to avoid the option select.
if akuma does raw df palm, gouken will get blocked.
Would the DF throw beat the Denjin as well ? If not then that’s HUGE in that match up.