You keep saying that, but the link you provided specifically states that minimum damage on hit was equal to chip not higher.
I couldn’t agree more. The simple SF formula has always been my go-to in fighting games, but I got so incredibly bored of SFIV overall that I took a chance and bought guilty gear xrd. That game is motherf***** heaps of fun. That is what is most important to me, that a game is fun to play. Of course, it has to be competitive…but the mechanics have to lend themselves to fun, exhilarating gameplay. Regardless of how much people love or hate parry, it was always fun to pull off long parry strings out of good reads followed by your own SA. Parrying into Q’s SAII is probably the most satisfying thing i’ve ever done in a fighting game. The focus mechanic always felt sluggish to me, on the other hand. It was double edged in the sense that it could create or break momentum, yet even when you’d create momentum from doing a forward dash it felt like your character weighed as much as a cow.
Ok, I’ll admit to my mistake since I tend to forget the details.
But the point still stands that A3 had terrible fireballs.
Yeah Alpha 3 and MvC2 are games that are really fun if you were just playing casually, but once you wanted to get competitive and win… yeah, not gonna play.
SF4 is a big mess. When SF4 was made, they were VERY reserved(which I didn’t mind) and wanted to keep things as close to SF2 as possible in terms of normals and specials. Ultras were essentially a powered up version of Supers(some having different properties like El Fuerte for example). A lot of chars didn’t benefit from Ultras though because of how they worked, and you didn’t see supers as often because EX meter was so important for some. Which is why I like how SF5 is streamlining supers/ultras this time around.
Enter SSF4. I honestly think having 2 Ultras was a really dumb idea because it defeats the design theory of vanilla, as stated above, where Ultras were essentially a powered up version of Supers. They could have just tweaked damage, some chars, some ultras and the game would have been fine. Ultra 2s were added because Capcom’s balancing sucks donkey balls. For example, Rose struggles with wakeup options, so they gave her a random ass U2. At least with other chars, their Ultras related to a special move they had. Where the hell is Rose’s orb special huh Capcom?!?! They could have just given her Ex Soul Spiral invincibility frames from the start.
But ok, who cares about the design theory, everything is fine and dandy now with SSF4. Oh but wait, enter AE. Let’s add the twins and give them all this crazy shit we didn’t want anyone else to have because we wanted to be very reserved!! Fuck footsies, here’s dive kicks, safe lunges, 101 ways to combo, and yeah, everyone have fun with your vanilla “restricted to be like SF2 char.”
Red Focus was a good addition imo. It helps a lot of chars who can’t land an Ultra to save their life unless they fish for FA crumples.
A2 also has it’s fair share of bullshit…
On top of that, CC’s were unblockable. I’d rather deal with a potential infinite setup than an unblockable, with nearly 100% guaranteed damage. Some characters actually have true 100% damage cc’s (i.e. Rolento, Sagat, Akuma). CvS2 is the one game that got VC’s right.
Damn where did they time go, i never played the Alpha series until last year on my emulator when playing Alpha 3. I remember this plaza that had a hair salon, donut shop (that had KoF 98) Subway, and a movie rental place when i was younger. The movie rental place had Street Fighter Alpha 3 for PS1 behind the window on display whenever you passed by the store, it used to always catch my eye, but sadly my PS1 (had it since day 1) broke around that time (1998? or 1999) so i could never rent it. 
They were unblockable only when the opponent was standing, and due to a glitch, if my memory serves me correct? Aside from that glitch, I personally think A2 handled customs pretty well. They were reasonably straightforward to do and useful in a lot of situations, and provided the potential for quite a few interesting mindgames. I haven’t actually played CvS2 (though I really want to, the game looks amazing), but from the little I know they were implemented in about the same way as A2, just not with the automoving included.
The big thing about CVS2 CCs is that you can cancel specials into themselves which is what makes shoshoshosho or paint the fence possible. Neither Alpha had that.
Alpha allowed specials into specials but they had dif rules. Alpha 3 for instance only allowed them to be canceled once the recovery frames started except in a few exceptions.
Alpha 2 I dunno the rules but you could do fireballs into fireballs for sure.
Not exactly. Look at 5:55.
A3 handled customs just as well and then some, because you were given more freedom in movement and creativity with juggles in place. Yes infinites are in the game and are annoying to watch/get hit with, but it’s not the be-all and end-all of the game. If it was, then there would be a LOT more characters in top tier but that’s not the case. Only six characters are top and 2 of them don’t even have infinites. Ryu has a reliable infinite set-up but he’s only B tier. Why? Because his other qualities/aspects make him so. And it doesn’t do away with the fun and hype of the game’s nature either. MvC2 has infinites as we all know, but people still get crazy hype over the game. Same kind of hype can be found in A3 (mostly in Japan tho) and there’s a little more character variety to be found as well. There’s even a decently-sized A3 scene still existing in Japan to the point where they recently updated their tier list for the game. I’m not saying A2 is a bad game (because it’s not). I’m just saying that A2 also has it’s fair share of bs. It’s not fair to shit on each other’s games so adamantly and become annoying elitists in the process when they both have their pros and cons. But whatever. It all comes down to personal taste in the end.
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Always thought A3 was the much more ambitious game. A2 seemed like a more natural evolution of SF2. However A3 with the killer cast, the isms which not only changed mechanics (like Xism couldn’t air block for example) and meters it also changed what moves a character had access to. A3 was the probably the most popular SF since hyper fighting and much more so than A2. It made a huge splash when it was released. As to which is the better game yeah that is subjective. I think A2 is good, but I prefer A3.
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Fun. Yes there is all this talk about what mechanics, characters, many high falutin’ terms…however what it all comes down to is how fun a game is to play. This is something that more is feeling than reasoning, that noob and seasoned pro alike can tell. I’ve experienced incredible boundless joy with the SF2 series, the alpha series, the SF3 series. It didn’t matter what level I was, or how deeply I understood the game, those games just put a huge smile on my face and many others. SF4 never did that (only SF that didn’t besides EX 1). Maybe that is why it has a fanbase that complains 99% of the time while other fighting game fanbases are relatively happy with few complaints.
If I could learn to play A3 competitively and actually had people to play, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Literally still have my SFA3 PS1 disc from 1998 (a note…the grind to get Guile/Evil Ryu/Shin Akuma in World Tour when you suck at the game…is brutal).
are there still rumors about a3 being remade?
Didn’t even know that there were rumors to begin with.
Blowout CC. As long as the opponent isn’t holding back, or not pressing a button at that range, they go into stun animation.
And I also think A2 handled CCs better than A3 due to them being much shorter and requiring less work to use.
Additionally, A2 also had better footsies (which is what matters more in this discussions since we know V isn’t gonna have Alpha style CCs). IMO, A2 had the perfect hitbox sizes for most normals.
I believe that CC caused reel stun because the Sakura player plainly didn’t block when the CC got activated.
I assume the paragraph you wrote after embedding the video isn’t aimed at me, but if it is: I’m not talking trash about either game, I’m just explaining why I think A2 handled CCs reasonably well, and did so better than A3. A3 has a more flexible system that gives the players more options once they master it, but I never got to the point where the CCs in that game made sense, yet V-ism is still better than the other isms by a mile. Contrast that to A2, where CCs are very much relevant and powerful, but everyone still have reasonably simple CC options, and you still have other good options to use meter on even besides CCs. I personally prefer that to a difficult-to-learn but more flexible system.
I do agree with blufang that A3 was a far more ambitious game than A2 though. One of the many reasons I still like that game in spite of all its faults.
edit: also, which six characters were top tier? Last I checked there were three top tiers(V-Akuma, V/A-Dhalsim, V-Sodom) and three high tiers (V-Sakura, V-Vega, V-Karin). Has someone gotten drastically better since then? =o
All games have a portion of their fanbase that complain. They eventually stop playing. People don’t complain about ST or 3S or even SFxT any more because the ones that are left are the ones that love the game. ST probably had just as many complaints as SFIV did (supers suck, the high damage sucks, throw techs suck, the execution barriers suck, O.Sagat sucks etc etc). While 3S was probably THE most hated game by a portion of the community for a long time. SFxT had so many complaints that the mod was forced to create a gripe thread solely because people were trashing the game in almost every thread before it was even released.
The difference with SFIV is that it had more iterations than most other games. And every new iteration brought new players (or returning players) and new (or returning) complaints. Mashing is too easy. Ultra 2 is useless. Ultra 2 is too cheap. DP FADC is too cheap. Unblockables suck. Vortex sucks. Yun/Yang/Fei are too strong. Delayed Wake Up sucks. Red Focus sucks. Dee Jay sucks.
If anything, the fact that people still complain about SFIV is a good thing. The people who complained about 3S, MvC3, SFxT, Injustice, whatever all quit right at the beginning and never looked back.
The thing is it isn’t just a small portion with SFIV, it is most of the fanbase. Sure every fighting game has drawn some complaints about this or that, but most have been satisfied. People that outright hate the game will leave right away regardless of what it is (though if you love the series you may try to tough it out a bit). All the mechanic complaints…forget about that. What about how 99% of the fanbase complains about not just one character, but seemingly every character that is above average? It isn’t just Yun/Fei/Yang. It’s Rose, Ibuki, Viper, Fuerte, Akuma, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Hakan, Blanka, poison, rolento, Cammy, Decapre, Gen, Elena, Balrog, Dudley, Juri, Rufus, Seth probably others too.
Forget about games of the past like ST and 3s. Sure we can speculate what people complained about. Oh wait, I was there. For ST it was…capcom milking street fighter too much. Hold loops, Vega Vortex, and O. Sagat. No one complained about high damage. The biggest was Capcom milking (this really started with Super SF2), but the other stuff was minor complaints from people who still loved the game.
What about other modern games? Go look at KOF XIII or Skullgirls or Guilty Gear Xrd. What you’ll notice is some complaint about certain mechanics, but not much whining about characters.
So what is the point? I think few people truly love SFIV, more they tolerate and perhaps mildly enjoy it. This means every fault, every little thing irritates them extensively. When people love a game, little things don’t bother them nearly as much, it takes something game breaking or a giant nuisance for them to take notice.
You’re completely wrong here, or at best, you’re trying to fit the reality of what really happens into what you’d like it to be. “99% of the fanbase” are complete scrubs. They complain about everything. This is true for any scene. Go on YT and look at how ST commenters talk about how cheap Vega is, or how John Choi can only win because he uses O.Sagat. 3S Chun gets nearly as much hate as people who hate 3S Chun haters. Don’t even mention Tweleve. Go to Battlefield and COD forums and see if it’s any different. The only reason you’ll notice SFIV complaints is because you seem to spend 90% of your time on the SFIV forums complaining. KOF? TTT2? MvC3? I hear people hating on these games every week at our offline sessions. Why? Mostly because these guys are passionate about winning at these games. If it’s not about that mids aren’t hitting mid when they should, then it’s about how Zero is a cheap POS, or how Mr. Karate is brainless. Don’t even get me started on KOF 98. Noone in our group complains about SFxT because noone cares about winning at that game.
So was I, and yes, people DID complain about the high damage. At the time noone wanted to play a game where j.hk cr.mk fireball did 50% damage. To everyone who played SF, it just seemed like a cheap attempt to get us to spend tokens. Think about it… stupid hard AI, increased execution barriers (to the point where your DP would “randomly” fail) and no bonus stages. Obvious cash grab. So what happened? We went back to Hyper Fighting. The KOF scene started growing. A3 and T3 on the PSX was the next “big thing”. People were still playing HF (and CE!), but hardly anyone played ST.
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YT commentators? There wasn’t youtube in 1994. I’m talking about at the time, not now in retrospect 20 years later. Commentators? All that footage is way after the game was released and in its prime. Sure the damage looks high if you are used to a lot of modern fighting games that require long combos to do big damage. However for people who played SF2 World warrior, not so much.
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KOF XIII? Yeah Mr. Karate gets hate, Kim gets some hate. Some people don’t like the whole drive cancel system. MVC3? Yeah X factor cheese, zero whatever. 3s? Chun is cheap, boo hoo. However notice how there are very few things that are complained about, as opposed to the 100+ things complained about in SF4. Sure people like to win. However with the sf4 fanbase it seems everyone thinks they are the next daigo and the only reason they lose is cause of OP/cheap stuff from other characters (even if they are using one of the top characters themselves).