Then why are you still trying to continue this discussion? People who play ST having been playing it for nearly 20 years now. That’s why they don’t complain. The people who didn’t like the game don’t play it any more. This is not rocket science.
It really seems like you are new to competitive gaming…
Well we are on a site called Shoryuken right? There is no need to argue, or for anyone to just follow what we say, they can see for themselves. Just take a look at the SFIV threads. Wait we need something to compare that to right? Well since SFXT was mentioned, take a look at those threads. The differences should be obvious.
SF4 is a good fun game. If you don’t like it fine, but don’t go trying to make it seem like everyone else hates it just because you don’t like it. What’s the point in that? You’ve beaten the dead horse enough. We get it, you don’t like SFIV. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m serving hard time.
sigh
Anyway, back on topic.
One thing that people rarely mention about SFIV and what, IMO, it does better than most other SF games (not necessarily in the damage department) is BnB combos. Who can tell me what Ryu’s BnB is in Alpha 3? Not talking about his V-ism’s, just his BnBs. What about in CvS2? Hands up anyone who can successfully land st.hp xx DP in the aforementioned games. How about cr.mp xx cr.hp xx tatsu?
Here’s the thing: In those games your BnB’s are basically punish combos into Super. Your hit-confirms are stuff like cr.lk, cr.lk xx LK Tatsu/fireball. Pushback is usually too high to get anything more than that. Off a medium attack you rarely get any reward because links are few and far between. Counter-hits usually only link into supers unless it’s a juggle. I think this was mentioned before, but very few games also have footsie-to-combo conversions like SFIV does. Even ST doesn’t have a good conversion rate from footsies (not that it needs it). The Alpha series, 3rd Strike and CvS2 rely on supers and CCs for conversions. The only other SF game that comes to mind that kept this style of play was SFxT, even though the combos were a bit bland because of boost chains. I’d like to see this style of play continue in SFV. I’ve never found short short xx super or short short xx fireball to be particularly exciting.
Yes those that play SFXT and other modern fighters (blazblue, xrd, smash bros, whatever) love the game. If you don’t love a game what is the point of playing it? You seem to be saying it is some kind of strength that everyone who plays SF4 complains about it. It isn’t. It means the game is so severely flawed that everyone sees it and that very few actually love it. SF4 players stuck around despite the flaws cause it was that good? However every other fighting game, fans left at the slightest bit of trouble? C’mon seriously?
On to your other point. Fighting games have become more and more combocentric, there are a ton of games out there with long advanced combo systems. SF was best when it was ground based, high damage, and short efficient combos. Game is more intereactive, individual pokes are much more significant, and the game becomes less dependent on combos.
Yeah sorry to bash SF4 so hard. However the same guys are in charge of SF5. Ono, Dimps, Ayano. Sorry but I don’t want another SF4, I want a real street fighter game.
Well get rdy to boycott this game to. Cause you’re gonna get a whole bunch of shit you don’ t like, you’re not gonna like the balance, people are gonna be complaining til they are red in the face, online is still gonna suck.
Your logic sometimes can be retarded. 2000 players show up to evo to compete in this game, 1 million views for the top 8. But people mildly enjoy and tolerate this game.
Honestly, I’m not buying this game if it releases without decent netcode. SF4 netcode is trash.
I’m saying that you should STFU. Seriously. The truth is that you don’t know enough about ANY game to be talking about who likes this and that. Those are the facts. Now, I don’t proclaim to be any sort of fucking saviour of FGs. But I can certainly tell a charlatan when I see one. I know you don’t mean any harm, meaning that I know you would like Capcom/Dimps/Whoever to make a game that you can beat your peers at and feel superior. This is not an unreasonable request. The problem is that this the umpteenth time I’m calling you out on your BS. Yes, we know you don’t like SFIV. PLEASE stop talking like you’re an authority on it OR ANY OTHER GAME. Seriously, the only thing I know your handle for is complaining about SFIV. And IMO, I and other people WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME (and other games that you think you know about) have got far more to say about it than you or any other some random SRK scrub.
How about you start talking about concepts that actually make sense? Try it.
I think a lot of people play SF4 cause they have to, it’s only game everyone wants to see on stream, the only game that gets a shit load of entries at tournaments, and gets sales. (besides Tekken, and Smash Bros) Lots of games netcodes suck, but SF4’s is playable, SF4 is also really easy to learn. When i say “everyone” don’t take it so literal, i obviously mean to use that word loosely, so don’t lecture me on that. Besides old GGPO related games, a lot of fun fighters i like don’t support online, or they have a horrible netcode, that’s just me though.
Kind of like why a lot of players got to the more popular game in a genre, cause that’s where all the money’s at, and the content that you won’t have to worry about the games scene ever dying, thus not wasting all your hours on a game. No one wants to play a dead game, then you go the arcade and see everyone play MVC2 back in 07, no one crowing around the dark stalkers machine, you wanna play the game where you can body the most people, a game that everyone cares about. O_O
The game has flaws, lots of them, but nothing beats a shoto footsie battle on training stage 
**
MY OWN EXPERIENCES AND OPINION, NOT THE FGC’s, NOT YOUR GRANDMOTHERS** NEVERMIND ME STARTING OFF THE POST WITH " I think "
I think that the most important thing is that you can’t claim to speak for even a majority of people in the competitive community much less FG players in general when all you are talking about is maybe your own local scene and the 30-50 people you see regularly on SRK discussing SF4.
Anyone who claims to speak for the majority of any group can only really speak of their experiences which are almost always a small percentage of the playerbase, even among the small percentage of players who make up the competitive FG community.
I always got the sense that some pros played/play this game simply because its popular (Daigo, M. Ross, Wolkfrone, etc…). Speaking for myself I initially played this game only because it was Street Fighter, but it grew on me. Its not my ideal conception of SF (I’ve been bitching about the weak zoning and AA’ing since Super) but its totally playable. And I definitely enjoy it when I’m not facing El Fuerte or one of the herp-derp characters.
back when the only game on GGPO was A2, i remember hating that stupid blowback shit so much.
anyways, i can speak for myself that i think SF4 is boring. it’s competitive and you’ll see almost any character actually has a chance at winning but at the cost of shitty damage, movement, stun, so much damn jumping because AA’s are ass and boring Oki. if it weren’t for those things then characters would really shine but only a few of them. in 3S there was an obvious top tier and everyone else was an underdog. it was exciting to watch matchups against Chun just to see some crazy shit because so much of 3S is mind games but when it came to money, why not pick the obvious top tier?
SF4 is the only SF game i see where there are a bunch of different characters winning the top prize. so with SF5 in mind, pick your poison: fun game with crazy characters that can exploit stuff and there will be an obvious top tier, or a bland game where damage is low as well as movement but now every character has a better chance and has more time to win?
i kinda hope for a mix of the two but i still don’t like how slow the game is and going off of that fake match between Combofiend and Mike Ross, i can’t judge the game off of that (also it’s just too early).
What does this even mean question mark.
This is a good point, and a debate that I sadly don’t think can be ended. I’d like a mixture of the 2 as well, but for some inexplicable reason, people gravitate towards stuff that’s crazy, exploitative, and broken and call it fun (a la Alpha 3, and Marvel), and games that are “slower”, more methodical and strategic are called boring. SF4 is playable and enjoyable for what it is, and to me, was a natural progression of SF games prior – some things they added we like, others we don’t. Hell, with each SF game I can name at least one or 2 things that I was never fond of. The fact that SF4 has a multitude of characters that are viable and can actually win tourneys (and has been that way since AE2012), I’d say it does quite a bit right. A lotta people who don’t or can’t play it because of its issues still enjoy watching good matches because they can be intense. Long story short, it is a Street Fighter game, yes, but if SF4 was as horrible and bad of a game as people wanna jump on the bandwagon to say it is, it woulda died out similar to what happened to SFxT.
SFIV pisses me off too much to play it and I’m actually going backwards enjoying 3S more. Still I like to watch it on a high level.
People who claim SF4’s footsies and zoning sucks, haven’t seen Daigo, Momochi, SnakeEyez, Poongko and Infiltration play. Those guys wreck shit on their ground game alone and are the most successful players of the game.
It’s a good game but I don’t like its overall mechanics and roster size. Game is still fun to watch and I understand people who like to play it.
The first one, obviously.
While not disagreeing that a good game engine has more relevance than balance, from the perspective of a stream monster nothing gets old faster than an unbalanced game. As much I like 3S, barring several character specialists I’ll pass on watching Chun matches for the umpteenth time. It’s like watching the same episode over and over again. SF4 may not be as fun to play, but it is exciting to watch a tournament because you can always count on seeing different matches save the perennial shotos. I guess the reason why we see 3 on 3 or one single elim tournaments in 3s is precisely because that’s the only way to bring more footage of the rest of the cast.
This is not the 90s where time and effort would have to be divided between balance and gameplay because there was little to do after releasing the game. Even if “unbalance is good” were true, it is a very bad idea to preach that to game developers: ambiguous statements like that are for them the perfect excuse to get lazy on the development: “Oh, we got it: we made Yun absurdly good* and DJ absurdly bad, unbalanced as you wanted us to do it.”. Much better to claim as the community that right now all effort is better directed to the engine development and that balance can (and must) come later after players have played it for a while.
*I don’t actually believe USF4 Yun is that good, but you get the idea.
The problem is that that balance has cost us an interesting game to play.
IMO, the ideal should be ST where you had match ups and counter picks all over the place. I believe Seth used the term “meta balance” where despite the match up discrepancies, you generally had an interesting cast.
Beware though because not everyone has the time to learn another character just to cover their main’s bad MUs.
Also I don’t think being “boring and uninteresting” is the reason and price for SF4’s balance. I’ve always thought that SF4’s slowness is just a design decision to make matches easy to understand and clear even for a beginner.
Well, that kind of meta balance may have worked in ST because it wasnt flooded with characters like USF4 is…
That same kind of balance and you would have to learn 7-9 characters to get the same profit you git from ST by learning 3 characters 