Oh ok. Makes sense.
Just swing over 6 to 3.
She doesn’t lose convincingly to vega or cammy. Though I agree she gets hit by a bad CC against certain vortex characters she got to spend a v-reversal or get a little lucky to survive. She isn’t above the cast but if she has rough matchups it isn’t going to be either of those two characters.
Cammy’s rush down is incredibly fraudulent in this game and Chun can anti-air her divekicks on reaction and honestly EX divekick hitbox is so bad you can accidentally anti-air it and if you watch Infiltration he anti-airs it with st. jab fairly consistently with Nash which Chun can also do. Chun also wins the ground war with better pokes though they both have a fairly even dash based mixup game. The big advantage that Chun has compared to most characters against Cammy is most characters can YOLO sweep to beat Chun’s buttons which Cammy really can’t do as much. Cammy is just a MUCH easier character to play and you need to know how to know how to punish her for max damage on her uppercut or she can do a lot of fraudulent things.
Vega … like I don’t even know how you come to that conclusion. They deal similar damage but Chun has Instant Air Legs and can punish most of his longer range stuff with EX legs. Seems even or Chun to me at the second frankly.
Retail version has not even been out for a week and you’re going to say she already loses MUs convincingly? Cmon man you’re from 06. You should be passed that stage. Also, vortex ding +1 sin.
I even took the time to read your weaknesses and to be honest they’re not that good.
You mention losing her reversal after stand blocking, V-reversal mitigates that, which is a great tool to have now that invincible backdashes and focus backdashes are gone, especially for a charge character. Also, she has a 3 frame crouch jab and 6 frame cr. forward to interrupt pressure. Additionally she has incredible AA normals in both s.lk and b+rh to prevent that scenario, the latter can lead to an air juggle in counter hit scenarios. These also work great against characters that can alter their jump arc, such as Necalli and Cammy.
She doesn’t need a gimmick to navigate screen control. On a hard read her v skill works just fine. Cr. mp also works due to it low profiling most projectiles, especially when it connects, as the hit stun locks her in place as the fireball passes over, but it also works without the hitstun. In addition her critical art is invincible from frames 1-6 to punish fireballs. Yes, not having hazanshu or focus dash forward makes it so she can’t just derp around plasma like before, but she has the tools to offset not having those options.
She has 950 health and 1000 stun. That’s 50 points below average and is averag respectively, not a huge discrepancy. Again, her damage is dealt through pestering with her fast walk speed and ranged pokes to whiff punish and counter poke with buttons such as: s.mk, cr.mk, b/f+ mp (good hit/hurtbox), s. fp, f+hk (crushes lows) and even s.rh, which at max range is near unpunishable. Sweep also works well even though it’s -12 on block. As we both know she also has a fireball, that even you mentioned covers her way in.
Up close she has a 3 frame cr. jab, that unlike everyone else, links into s.mp, a 26 frame overhead (which is quicker than the average reaction time), good pressure buttons, instant air mk lightning legs that +1 on block, and instant air head stomp that can be used as an instant overhead to end rounds. Additionally her walk speed can be used to walk in and out of throw range to bait throw techs, and poke range as well. Furthermore, her buttons become even better during V-trigger.
If she did on average damage, which at this point in the games life span is a subjective measurement, with her movement and footsies, she would be too good. Seeing as by the time she got in, she would’ve dealt good damage off pokes, and then combo’d into, what I would I assume the average damage range to be, the 300ish range. Don’t believe me, in terms of my theory of balancing? Look at Ryu, who is the perfect example. Stubby normals, but hits like a Mac truck up close.
All in all I am sorry to say that your glaring weaknesses appear to not be so much with the character itself but rather your own misunderstanding of Chun thus far.
Retail version has not even been out for a week and you’re going to say she already is an S tier/top tier character?
Cmon man, you’ve been here 7 years, you should know better.
If that isn’t what you are saying, then we are arguing semantics. And I’m not in the mood.
One thing I’ll say is I haven’t fully evaluated her instant air legs pressure, even though I can do them perfectly.
They may be the thing that is “missing” from my game that others are using that make these matchups better for her.
I’ve been trying to play a fundamentally solid Chun based on ground game and kikokens and frame traps.
Vega beats Chun in every game they are in… It’s an archetype thing. cammy is much the same way with Chun having trouble with divekicks. I personally think that if the divekicks are easier to AA that doesn’t make a huge difference since cammy also has good jumpins and can mix up which ones she does at ease. If she hits she gets a huge return in damage over the dismal damage that AA’s tend to do in this game.
I also base these things on my own matchups and what I’ve seen on streams. Vega out pokes Chun, is faster than her, and can avoid the kikoken very well. Perhaps instant air legs changes the matchup since its new to Chun. Her v skill I doubt really changes the matchup much unless it stops walldive stuff.
New game, and all but archetypes are still archetypes.
You’re mad! How can they outshine him when he can literally become a ball of blazing fire?
You don’t really need heavy mix up in this game. Who has really great mix up in this game that doesn’t have a crippling neutral issue? Not gonna trade my gud buttenz for more anime. Hell nah. Especially in a game where things like white chip and counters/crush counters give you reward for just running up to people with buttons.
You’ve never heard of instant air lightning legs? Basically a multi hit plus 1 dive kick at lowest height that does well air to air as well. EX legs punishes all kinds of shit on block and is safe to throw out when you want a panic confirm.
I wouldn’t exactly call air LL a good hitbox…that’s stretching it…
It’s good for counter hitting since the active frames are very long and hit box is wide. There’s almost no other air move in the game active for as long as air legs with as wide of a hit box. It also has a wide hurt box to keep it from dominating air game, but if your legs are out first before they attack you will stuff a lot of things.
Actually I should ask. Are you referring to the neutral or a mix-up? Because the former I can’t really see working without getting pounded in the face.
Neutral. There are lot of situations where you can use it to stop preemptive attempts to jump or go air to air. Just kinda set it and forget as long as they haven’t already pressed a button.
Hmmmmm I see…
Sick strawman argument you got going there.
B+hk can reliably AA both dive kicks and regular jump-ins without having to alter timing. Spend more than 5 minutes in the lab with her AAs and you’ll see that. Again on counter hit, she gets a juggle to extend damage.
Vega does not out poke Chun for the simple fact that Vegas pokes aren’t like they were in SF4. The hitbox no longer extends substantially further than his hurtbox with his claw. Additionally Vega has no invincible reversal outside of his backflips and of course v-reversal. Making him more susceptible to meaty pressure.
Lastly you just admitted to potentially missing things in your game. Given that fairly significant detail why are you propagating the idea that she loses certain MU’s like its a fact? This game is too young for anyone to have a solid understanding of who truly beats who and what characters ranks where on a tier list.
I’m not stating anything in an absolute manner. Everything is my opinion. Like your assertion that BHK stops divekicks and jumpins at both timings…I disagree. I disagree because I KNOW I’ve done BHK to early and wiffed it against divekick. I also know I’ve done it at wrong distances that would have worked against normal jumps.
As far as me not exploring everything with the character… That’s everyone and goes without mention.
The vega thing has to be seen to be believed I can hear you TELL ME things all day but until I see it on stream or in my own game, I’m not really listening to things that don’t have proof.
The only Vegas I’ve seen playing against chuns have severely out poked the Chun players. So… Yeah.
And as I said already, she’s a good character. She just isn’t currently top.
You want evidence, look no further than Ricky losing with her at WNF. One of the westcoasts best ever players and even one of the best in America and he’s losing to other characters…
It ain’t proof she’s low tier but it certainly doesn’t bode well that this guy who has used this character for years on other games is losing to other characters right now.
For me this is proof FOR NOW, that she certainly ain’t top tier yet. That’s what the easy characters are for. She might come into her own in a month or so… Or maybe not, but she ain’t there yet… Imo.
It’ll be a while before we see if Ricky losing is due to her not being as good as people think or if Ricky needs to just figure out all of his matchups and players first. No one has the matchup or player knowledge that they had in SFIV yet so anything can look skewed ATM. Lack of perfectly ground tech doesn’t help things either. Even with the game’s focus on neutral over tech, it seems to be that tech will still be pretty important.
I just think early into the game there seems to be a few characters that seem destined to never be top tier, but no one is really terrible yet either.
Ken is the best character in the game , come at me , I am ready for you
that good or that bad ?
I’ve only play one Chun that used instant air legs and I haven’t seen much of it. I’m indifferent to it for now.
they feel very bad
She’s easily outpoked by everyone with good normals and cant handle pressure at all since she has no get out of jail free card (herp derp dragon punch ftw!). Far range normals completely shit on her and they will easily blow through her command dash and command throw.