they should just make some of his moves have better recovery. ie reducing the damage on the command throw for better recovery because fierce tt, does a SHIT load of damage almost too much for a move. i wouldnt mind reducing the dmg for better recovery. thats just my 2 cents but i dont care for the game anymore so it doesnt matter what they do to him.
He needs the damage; it’s really his only solid ability which poses a threat.
Falling Sky needs to be changed somehow, as everyone (95%) agrees, but it’s still up for debate.
To add to the Falling Sky debate, at the very least, it should trade with a lot of things–if not, just have the EX version trade with most. Also, I disagree at the argument of Abel’s ‘theme’ is about his unreliability, lack of of solid moves. This is stupid in a fighting game. When a character like Abel, who comes down to guessing & luck significantly more than other characters, and does not meet the high risk-high reward standard, they are flawed.
If Abel is going to remain the gamble he is now, then the his high risk-medium reward should be buffed up to high-reward…and this is what people are discussing, to put it into plain words. Otherwise, there is another option, which is being argued by another party, that pushes for more solidity in his moves, lowering his risk, but not drastically.
Abel lacks a projectile, Shoryuken, good reversal, combo-able and safe normals, which all top-tier characters possess. Without such tools he is undeniably a significantly larger gamble to play, when it comes to tournament play, as there is a reliance on out-guessing your opponent.
The real debate here is of opinion–whether the character Abel’s, design currently (high risk-medium reward, good mix-up game) is fit for SFIV, or he would be better suited to have:
Party A) a buff on reward for high risk
, or
Party B) a buff in a solid moveset in someway, to lower risk
, or lastly (so-far)
Party B.2) a semi-buff in a solid moveset, with a slightly nerfed reward
You gotta be kidding me.
EX TT? Give me a break.
Shoryuken, Teleport, Messiah, Headbutt, and other stuff are way better, and (with Messiah being through in there since it’s godly and Rufus gains meter fast) no meter cost. I know he is a grapple character, but what’s really bad is that this only real offensive reversal:
- costs an EX meter
- is a guess
- comparability unsafe
- arguably slightly less threatening
ok actually i agree with the shitty reversal lol my post was meant towards the others, projectile/shoryuken/comboable safe normals.
What he lacks he should make up for in any sense, and he doesn’t compensate for imbalanced/overpowered moves such as reversals listed which distinguish the winners from the losers.
While he has good–almost great mix-up game–what he has going for him isn’t great, or in some cases, good.
And who here is is stupid enough to argue an EX TT does not pale in comparison to NON-EX Shoryuken, EX Messiah, a teleport (akuma/bison/dhalsim)?
Now none of us here are asking for something to be ‘great’, or even ‘good’. No one.
We state our posts in a matter as such, that things need to be fixed. Discussion defined: argument is over opinion on how things should be fixed.
how will giving him a decent antiair make his stuff safe . All his mixups arent save at all an experienced player can backdash out of most setups.
He deserves a good antiair because he doesn’t have a a good wakeup move
CAPCOM fucked up ! Shotos dont even have to guess on wake up anymore if the have 2 EX stock ( unless you can make them whiff the shoryu )
Abel gets raped in a lot of matchups because he simply can’t defend himself. He has very few defensive tools and the ones he does have are extremely risky.
he is a character that deserves great zoning like rolento
no good wakeup move meanse you should have good zoning .
an abel high finish is not gonna happen very soon. Abel has too many bad matchups.
If you meet
gief
bison
akuma
you are basically fucked.
ex roll doesnt sound so bad . Akuma has that bullshit so why cant abel. He can at least have one bullshit move. All ex roll would do in this situation is get him out of the opponents face if he had meter… .
I would prefer if ex roll would stay like it is but only if he has normals too zone and keep the opponent out.
I agree with wednessday dagger capcom really fucked up
-Why the fuck does akuma need that fast walking speed when he has a teleport (air)fireballs and shoryuken to get opponent of his back
-
why do a lot of characters who have good anti air specials also get goon antiair normals ( #$@$#$ sagat standing roundhouse )
-
why can’t abel have a 3 frame jab when it wont lead to a special move ( boxer gets headbutt into ultra )
I’m not asking for an easy mode character guys and i like playing abel … but capcom just fucked up.
Maybe people are too blind to see that against all high tier characters, you have to be wary when jumping in?
Some of you people contest if Falling Sky were to be functioning correctly, he would be overpowered? You think it would be worse than Headbutt, SRK, or evasive as a teleport? Hell, it doesn’t even trade.
ABEL GETS A GOOD ANTI-AIR, and you’re afraid to jump?! Afraid that other characters may loose their ability to nearly freely jump Abel at an extreme variety of angles? We can’t have that!
Abel will lock us down with projectiles, high priority normals, and 3-FRAME-JABS–and watch out for that Kara throw! What a fu****g joke.
The handful of intelligence around here has stated this. I’ll just say:
He has no anti-threat wake up outside of EX-costing risky/unsafe throw. Almost all set-ups can be backdash’d. Counter backdash with Wheel Kick? LAUGHABLE. You won’t get your sweet-spot, or you’ll whiff–Bye 20%+ life free, and possible kd.
What’s worse? I don’t freaking feel like talking about his own wake-up game…
I would +rep you if I could. This is a genius statement.
Not only boxer, but other characters as well. There’s no real reason why he should have one.
Having it however, would be a good and if nothing else is done–undeniably needed buff. He is a pressure character that is a FU****G gamble in itself. With NO wake-up or anti-wake up game, the pressure he exumes when not setting the pace is arguably non-existent, give or take ultra.
3 frame jab is only going to make him a character that makes more sense. Some have mentioned that ‘he’s a grappler’, he should have little defense’. Little? He’s got nothing. A little jab that won’t combo into jack except a tough-linked St.Mp isn’t going to b a huge threat. Especially with scaling the way it is.
Abel is “simpler” when it comes down to it than characters such as C.Viper, and Gen. However, when it comes down to SFIV core, execution in tournaments is not a nigh-mildly discussed factor. C.Viper, and Gen who are harder to ‘master’ at least in terms of execution, have it easier since they have far more practicality (Gen at least a small amount more).
I thought caps were the ticket on the bullet train to cools-ville, but apparently it’s bolding and underlining things. I learn something new everyday.
Almost every post includes some sort of bitching about lack of an SRK-ish move and people ignore tournament players when they speak up.
Perhaps you should form some sort of support group?
How do you know if Falling Sky is FUNCTIONING CORRECTLYYLYLLYLYLYLY when you sure as hell didn’t design the game or the character? It seems to function just fine as a combo ender that puts you in a great position and does decent damage. You assume because he reaches into the air the only way it is functioning correctly is if it is an anti-air?
If you’re not using cr.fp and cr.mk as functional anti-airs you don’t have the right to bitch about FS not being one.
Gen’s EX Oga is not that good. If you know it’s coming, you can jump with him, and punish. Now, it’s hard because he can choose which wall he goes to, so you can still miss him, but EX Oga is not invincible until he hits the wall, so it can be punished.
EX Roll having throw invincibility would essentially make it a teleport with 1 frame recovery. That’s just silly, honestly.
its not that silly considering you have to waste meter to be able to do it, and you can only roll in one direction
It’s silly.
EX Messiah “wastes” meter, and only goes in one direction.
Yes I wouldn’t want ex roll to be as dumb as ex messiah but honestly it wouldn’t. Abel would have an Akuma teleport that only goes in one direction, that only goes a set distance, and you can’t do much out of it. I would agree with them making it throw invincible if they added a few more frames of recovery.
I see your point though. It could be “too good” but Abel really does need a good reversal that keeps people from pressuring him all day.
I think he already has that… in EX Roll.
It’s a very good reversal that loses to one option… like all good reversals.
Most reversals lose to block. Others lose to jump out (like EX Messiah). EX Roll loses to throw.
Abel doesn’t need a good escape move or a get-the-fuck-off-me move
He just needs better normal moves to continue giving pressure (i.e. 3 frame jab or frame advantage after blocked dash kick)
Do you guys even remember Makoto? she had the shittiest wakeup, probably worse than abel, but she was top tier. What made her a monster was the way she can lock u down and end the match in seconds if you guessed wrong. Her defense was her offense, and thats the way it should be for Abel imo
Better offensive moves = Better defense
I’m just going to say about the throw-invincibility on the role is a ludicrous idea, EX or not.
Random thoughts: For an EX bar on a roll/escape that’s alright, most players feel like it or the non-EX could use something, since Abel’s stock is so needed (EX TT, CoD-cancel) there’s an emphasis on looking at the normal roll’s usefulness outside of combos, omit fireballs.
Da Troof.
More blockstun would be awesome. However, as I understand it, the reason that F+MK is +1 on block is so that you can do a cr.LP afterwards which can’t be thrown. (throw startup is 5 frames?)
Having more blockstun will make him UBER dangerous because that might negate reversals after the f+MK. It would force your opponent, if he wanted to reversal, to psychic your next f+MK. Otherwise, he’d just have to sit there and take your shit as long as you’re not predictable.
I want it, trust me. I think that’s a little too much tho.
Wow, I must hate Abel, I think any buff would be too good… :looney:
There’s almost nothing you could do to Abel that wouldn’t make him too good. Adding blockstun to moves would be kinda ridiculous. He has too many mix-ups for him to be able to FORCE you to stick around for them through block stun.
Throws are 3 frames, btw.
Well, I know Mago thinks Abel is upper tier. I also know that I’ve played some good able players that have absolutely wrecked my shit. He’s like a train, once he gets going you’re really fucked. I don’t think he really needs a buff, but I also don’t think he needs to be nerfed. I’m definitely not the authority on this, but I feel that he is a very solid character.
Hav: “There’s almost nothing you could do to Abel that wouldn’t make him too good.”
HAV, I thought you said that abel was a bad character earlier, as in, not a good match against most of the upper tiers, but you also think there are no buffs that wouldn’t make him overpowered?
Can you explain in more detail why? You’re usually very sensible but I’m not sure I’m following you here. Do you think he needs nerfing or buffing or that he’s perfectly balanced as is?
The better question too, the one I was originally trying to get at with this thread, was not just what you think he needs, but what you imagine CAPCOM will think he needs, though those might be the same answer
obviously no one is psychic, but from having seen prior tweaks to characters in earlier games, i thought you, or others, might have an idea what to expect whenever the tweaking happens (if it does)