I think the main reason HDR went down the tubes in popularity is just that SFIV just blew it out of the water in hype. Most of the casual or average players of HDR were just a bunch of hype randoms who wanted something to wet their mouth until SFIV released. The fact that it came out before SFIV was kind of an inevitable beginning of the end for the game competitively. It was obvious that David Sirlin was rather salty about SFIV’s popularity once it released because it had a lot of minute strange aspects to it’s gameplay system that weren’t really reminiscent of older SF games. He made rants about how he thought this and that should be changed about the game and how it wasn’t really what he envisioned SFIV should be like. The reason he even brought that up to begin with is obviously because he was bummed at how SFIV stole his self created show. I doubt he even played SFIV to a marginal level of competitiveness. He puts in all of this work to make a “better” Super Turbo and then people just go “OOOOHHH SFFFOUUUURR!!”
Once SFIV came out top players mostly decided to start dedicating themselves to that game since it was going to be the only new Street Fighter in the last 10 years and they had to put focus on it to ensure strong new players come about in the scene. HDR had to take a backseat from there because once SFIV got big in tourneys it was obvious that less and less time would be spent by both casuals and hardcores alike in a remix of the most bare bones version of competitive SF. To a lot of casuals I’m sure HDR just looks like another remake of a 15 year old game (because HD remakes of old ass games already come up every 2 seconds online) and the fact that it doesn’t really play or feel much different to them will just have them gravitating to SF2 with more characters (SFIV). SFIV looks and plays enough like SF2 where to them there’s not much reason to play HD Remix.** SFIV does a great job of making itself look like SF2 to the average player which kind of hurts SF2 in general. Ryu throws fireballs and uppercuts in SFIV also so to them there’s no difference.**
The secondary reason being the absolute backlash from a good bit of the high level scene over balance issues. Damdai and quite a few of the other big ST players just couldn’t stand some of the rebalances of the game (like how Akuma was rebalanced but ended up being just as broke for different reasons, Gief supposedly became Vanilla SFIV easy to play) and literally boycotted the game at a certain point because of said issues. The problem these days is that with SRK being noob friendly and streams being a regular thing that whatever the hardcore players think seeps down into the bigger pool of casual stream watching players quickly. When hardcore players have that much of an issue with the changes made to a game they play it just creates a divide in the scene and any division amongst top players in a game really lowers the hype and entry numbers for the game.
I’ve noticed this even in my local scene when the hardcore old guys did nothing but talk shit about earlier versions of SFIV instead of actually take it seriously. They expected the newer players to just kinda “take on the challenge” of making a scene for a game that literally can’t be created without the support of the older players. Which is why when Alex Valle took hold of training new people regularly every week in SFIV the game just flourished over there competitively quickly. Obviously on a broader scale it’s going to be even more apparent.
3S has a much better chance for long term success online and offline competitively simply because it’s obvious to both casual and hardcore players that it doesn’t play like SF2 or SFIV (although I’d argue it has more elements of SF2 than SFIV does). There’s no flashy 3d model version of a game that plays like 3S that’s coming out to steal it’s show. 3S is 3S. It’s just plain and obvious when you look and play the game that it brings something different to the table than SF2 or SFIV and that will get a lot of casuals interested in it that may be burnt out of SFIV and will bring back any of the hardcores easily that have already loved the game for years. It will have a specific niche in the scene especially with a 12 year history of competitive play across the world including to this day representation at SBO.
Better idea : rip her legs off so she can’t cr.MkxxSA all day like in the vids!!!
She’d be still very competitive as most of her important pokes are still here and she can still move really fast if doing her kara throw several times in a row!
Also, Makoto is not S tier due to her SA2 or her 100% stun combos…
Makoto can only set up SA2 in general if both her and her opponent is at the far end of the screen space where she can confirm a grab or s.HP into it. Otherwise she just has to throw it out at random and pray. I regularly played against the best Makoto on the east coast in tournaments and even though I played Ibuki who had low health he preferred to use SA1 against me because it gave him actual hit confirms and Ibuki could move herself and footsie on the stage better than Makoto could so it was harder for him to guarantee those spaces on the screen to 100 percent me any way. SA2 has its strenghts in certain situations/matchups due to the 100 percent stun factor but good luck having that super win you matches consistently with anyone with a better poking/spacing game than Makoto.
When you have games where you can just turn on an X Factor and kill a character, Makoto SA2 isn’t that bad. At least it requires a certain amount of spacing and effort to do.
if you take things of that nature out of the game it turns it into sf4/sf2. where’s the high stakes if you remove that? knowing that the mixup comes after that sa2 forces the chun player to get better at landing that sa2 and it forces the opponent to make damn sure they dont get het by it.
if you see 100% stun as “bullshit” you wont see it from the other point of view. the question is why do new school players consider broken things bullshit. I for one lovebroken shit in games cuz you have to worry about executing it and avoiding it
Honestly at this point I’m fed up with randoms showing up blabbering about rebalancing Third Strike. This thread is about a port of the arcade game, any gripes about perceived balance issues only serves to derail the thread. I’d really appreciate if the mods clean up this mess created by the ‘rebalance crew’. If you are really so passionate about the issue and not merely looking to stir up ruckus, find the appropriate venue, because this thread sure as hell ain’t it.
i actually dont think any of you guys have played half as long as i have, i have been playing fighters since the yie ar kung fu days and sf3ts since it came out (same for most capcom and snk fighters btw).
now that we know that there wont be a relabance i wont bother asking for it or whatever. just looking at sbo the characters used that making it to the finals are basically always the same 3 or 4 characters, always yuns and chuns. what does strike me is how many of you guys actually prefer the unbalanced game instead of getting a better game. at least yun needs some work, chun is even good in the hands of a scrub that can hitconfirm and knows the basics.
Yes. We have gripes, friend. Gripes. The art is permanent and… unattractive. It’s like seeing that chick at the beach with a two peace string bikini on with stretchmarks from here to Missouri. She’s hot if you can get past the glaring imperfections.
wasnt being dismissive…i actually enjoy this topic. especially when i’m at work lol
but picture the game (3s) without all of the things new school players want to take out. imagine cvs2 without roll cancelling or marvel without…marvel lol
Fuck a rebalance. We just want to play the same competitive game that the rest of the top players have been playing competitively for years. We can’t get close to as good as they are playing a changed version of the game where the top tiers are all watered down for us. If this game came out 2 years ago sure…but at this point we just want the same game with the same exact engine mechanics so hopefully one day we can get people out to SBO again and really run through the brackets. It’s not like this is SFIV or MVC3 where you just learn DP FADC ultra or 1 frame grab turn on XF and can start beating up on veteran players. It takes a lot more work to get good with even the best 2 of the game where we’re pretty much fine with how good they are because Joe Shmoe Y+C is still going to get blown up and not be playing very often in a 6 to 8 man lobby.
The hardcore fans have been waiting years for a port of the game that has the exact same specifics as the arcade version and once we get that that’s all we’re gonna want.
So being old makes you a legit resource on FG discussions? Congrats. You’ve been playing “fighting games” for 26 years. I’ve been playing for 17. There are people here that have been playing a while, but we don’t go around flaunting it like it’s something special.
Nobody wants a rebalanced 3S for quite a few reasons. 1. Rebalancing it will do with HDR did and toss away the devoted crowd that will play it. 2. the newbies that come in wont play it for long when they realize how complex it is. 3. Every time Capcom tries to rebalance shit or fix glitches, things go wrong. What’s up Alpha 3 upper? What’s up CvS2 EO? What’s up DC3S?
Also… Chun might have been that scrub friendly about 5 years ago… No more. She still gets her lucky hits and shit, but the followup after the SA2 is what determines her ability to truly win on a constant basis.
I main Q. Do you know who my worst matchup is? Makoto. People don’t care about Yun and Chun being great because they aren’t broken. Q can take 60~70% off most of the cast with a Jump-in FP, Standing MK, FP Dash Punch hitconfirm to SAII into another FP Dash Punch AND he gets a health boost after that’s said and done. It’s probably the most damaging BnB IN THE GAME, but Q is considered to be the second worst character in the game.
In this game, everyone has some dumb shit they can do to win, except Sean. Sean has to be played EXTREMELY competently. Hell, even Twelve can beat top 5 if he’s patient and clever. Just because the top tier has things that make them good, it doesn’t mean they’re broken. The only real reason Yun is top tier is because of Genei-Jin. If he didn’t have that, he would be right next to Yang. If Chun didn’t have so many different hitconfirms, she would be MUCH lower. If Ken didn’t have Jinrai, or if it was one stock, he would be much lower. If Q had an invincible reversal, he would be much better (possibly the best). The list goes on and on.
People pick those characters because they are easy to win with, based on the tools they have. If it wasn’t Yun/Chun, it would be Ken/Mak, or Akuma/Urien. There is ALWAYS a top-tier. ALWAYS. Remember ST Dhalsim? His ONLY negative matchup was Vega. No one complains about him.