Other than speed, there isn’t. Speed is another major advantage 2nd impact Ryu has over 3rd strike Ryu. You’ll notice how fast Ryu moves compared to his 3s counterpart.
2I Ryu doesn’t have 3s Ryu’s F.Hp tho. Even if 2I is just a plain faster game than 3s. 2I Ryu still has a speed advantage. 2 stock denjins is really too fucking good, thats the main reason Ryu is top tier in 2nd impact and it’s the biggest and one of the few differences.
But it isn’t. Akuma and Ibuki are way worse than Yun/Chun’ in 3S, and Sean is basically Ken with SA3 all over again, except worse because hyper tornado reverses everything.
There are like at least 6 characters that can compete though(Ibuki, Akuma, Ryu, Sean, Yang, Yun, Dudley, Ken) where in 3s is basically Yun,Chun,Ken and maybe Makoto on a good day.
You know if there was ever a “Hyper Street Fighter 3” game I have a feeling the tier would be something like this:
High - Yun(3s), Ibuki(2I), Akuma(21), Chun-Li
Mid - Sean (21), Ryu (21), Ken(3s), Makoto, Yang(21)
After that I guess it could be up in the air, but somehow I get the impression every would be able to compete a whole lot better.
Your high should be tops, and your mid should be upper mid
Add NG necro to upper mid, and put Sean in tops. Sean has the meter glitch, and all kinds of other bullshit.
That’s because the game runs at a faster speed.
Thats not it, you’ll notice how 3s Ryu feels VERY SLUGGISH compared to his 2I counterpart. Where as people like, Ken, Yun, and Ibuki dont feel that way.
NG Ibuki is a better character than 2I Ibuki(If I remember correctly, she had the infinity, and did slightly more damage+slightly better stun), and no offense, but NG Ibuki, 2I Ibuki and 2I Gouki are far more stupid good then 3S Yun, if anything imo, I would place NG Ibuki, 2I Ibuki and 2I Gouki in a tier by themselves above characters like 3S Yun.
Yun is only stupid if he has meter, NG Ibuki, 2I Ibuki, and 2I Gouki are stupid with our w/out meter.
Imo, Top would be something like this with a HSF3 game…
**
Top Tier**
NG Ibuki
2I Ibuki
2I Gouki
Upper Tier
NG Sean
3S Yun
2I Sean
3S Chunli
High Tier
2I Yang
2I Ryu
3S Ken
etc, etc, yes, I’m missing alot of other powerful characters, but those are where I think the characters that I have at the moment would be placed though. Damn, now this HSF3 stuff has me, to some of you more knowledgable players, please post up, I really want to hear this now.
I dont know about that list, Yun is strong with or without meter as well…and chun-li is pretty much Godly whatever the cirumstances. If I where to revise the list im sure its something like this (also note im not repeating characters, im going with a characters strongest version) :
Top Tier: Yun(3s), Akuma(2I), Ibuki(NG), Chun-li
Upper Tier: Sean(2I), Ryu(2I), Ken(3s), Yang(2I), Makoto
Yuns meter is to good, I dont see anyone getting over him to be perfectly honest.
I’m no super player, but even 3s Yang is >Yun without meter.
Actually they do have that problem. Ryu’s big differences are 2 Denjin bars vs faster recovery on the Shinkuu Hadoken.
New Generation Ibuki has a one button infinite and cannot be placed in the same tier as any Third Strike character.
I’d have to disagree, 3S Yun is only a huge threat when he’s got Genei-Jin. Without meter, he’s nowhere near as strong or as versatile as 2I Yang or even 3S Yang, Genei-Jin is what makes 3S Yun a true beast.
NG Ibuki, 2I Ibuki and 2I Gouki do not require meter to do big damage, and are capable of dishing out sickening combos, stun and damage without it. NG Ibuki’s infinite alone would probably push her even above her 2I counterpart and 2I Gouki as well.
2I Ibuki is everything NG Ibuki is but without the infinite, and her combo setups after SAIII are much more devastating then what 3S Yun can pull off after Genei-Jin. 2I Gouki’s Divekick alone will give him a massive rushdown game, with very little fear, and this is Gouki without even having to resort to SAIII useage yet.
3S Chunli is beastly, but 2I Sean is basically 3S Chunli+3S Ken wrapped in one but with better ex-options and still better damage off of regulars as well, which would push 2I Sean even above someone like 3S Chunli. Also…the more I think about it…isn’t 2I Yang, JUST as good as 3S Chunli? Because pratically ALL of his regular lows hit-confirm into some stupid shit, and SA1 does huge damage while having 2-Stocks? Someone needs to explain that, because I would probably push 2I Yang into this category if needs be.
2I Ken is not that much weaker then 3S Ken, so I would still place him along the lines with 2I Ryu and 2I Yang.
However someone has to clearify, because if I remember correctly, NG Sean had far stronger damage+stun damage potential then even 2I Sean.
I still stand with my tier listings, because the three characters I have on top are ridiculous without meter, and I may now even have to push NG Ibuki in her own tier ranking because going back to watching some of those vids with NG Ibuki…she’s just stupid good.
Note on 2I/3S Ryu : Honestly, those 2-Stock Denjin with those super short meter make such a huge difference in 2I Ryu’s versatility, because of Ex-Options and Denjin being far more frequent and becomming much more dangerous because of the shorter bar. You can also say that Shin-Shoryuken is slightly better then his 3S counterpart since the bar is much smaller as well. 2-Hit fp Shoryuken, Faster Shinkuu-Hadouken…all of these differences pushes him well beyond 3S Ryu.
Do you have any matches or clips of NG Ibuki in action, Im still convinced that Yun is better only because he dominates so much in tournies. I dont know if NG or 2I where played out enough for people to develope counter-matches because the impression im getting is that the games where turned away fairly quick.
3s has been played for the last couple of years and Yun/Chun still hail over the entire case fairly easy.
Your info on NG Sean is correct. Jump RH to cl.RH to RH tornado was about 80% stun and hefty damage. However, NG Sean had worse recovery on the Tornade, and his Hyper Tornado’s damage wasn’t as good. He also had a different target combo that I personally think was worse (he had Ken’s cl.MP, cl.HP). Hence why 2I Sean is better.
3S Ken has enough to be placed above 2I Ken. Without double Shoryus and the extra range on c.MK and c. RH, Ken feels a bit limited. I know he has more ways to go into his super in 2I, but none are as accessible as his 3S c.MK.
As for Chun, I think the priority of her normals + her kara throw are enough to put her on 2I Sean level, maybe a little lower but definitely in the same tier.
I think I’m seeing where everybody’s coming from with 2I Ryu. Up until now, I’d basically played him like 3S Ryu, not utilizing my EX moves enough. Time to change the game plan!
Well I was playing the game today and it definitely feels faster then 3s is. The UOs are quicker and really safe even if blocked. Now as far as the tier issue is considered here is my spin on it.
Top Tier:
NG Ibuki
2I Akuma
3s Yun
2I Sean
Higher Tier:
2I Ryu
Chun-li
3s ken
2I Yang
I think people are underestimating how powerful to Denjin stocks are, although he might not have the speed or pokes of someone like Chun and Ken he can perform massive damage if the opponent is cornered.
OK…so assume I am one day to have an NG & 2I Tourney/Casual matches with some friends; whom would I ban if I can ban centrain characters (NG Ibuki, 2I Gouki)?
Ibuki is the best character in the first two games. If you ban Gouki, you may as well ban her also. I think it’s an overreaction to ban either considering what everyone else has to work with, though.
The only person who is possibly overrated is 2 Denjin Ryu. People are fascinated by his ability to hold two of those things. In 3S Denjin Ryu does not win high level tournaments today (unless somebody knows of one?) and there’s no reason to think that being able to store another Denjin means people somehow can’t parry it, which they will.
That’s not the main point of having two Denjins. Like, let’s say you knock down/throw someone in the corner. You can throw a jab Hadoken as they get up, cancel into Denjin, then vary the timing on when you actually release it to throw off their parry timing. If they’re not stunned, all you have to do is something like low Forward into Jab Hadoken into another Denjin, and then release it when it’s only charged up to two hits. If they’re still stuck in block stun from the regular Hadoken, the Denjin hits them and there’s nothing they can do about it, since you can’t get out of block stun/red parry in 2I.
A Denjin Ryu likely isn’t going to win a tournament with Akuma and Ibuki around, but to say he’s overrated… well, don’t you think they away the second stock in 3S for a reason?
I agree with BBH, because if it wasn’t an X-Factor, why the massive beefing up of the Denjin Bar (It was the size of Ken’s SAIII in 2I only), and why the removal of it from 2-stocks to 1-stock?
With the 2-stocks, Ryu has much more versatility with better Ex-Options. Denjin is far more frequent because you have 2-stocks and most importantly it’s one of the smallest SuperArt bars in the game. Just think, if you only built up enough to have 1-stock and had Denjin land for dizzy. 2I Ryu’s Jump fp. s.fp, lk. hurricane kick (so you fall quicker) would pratically almost refill it back up for another Denjin setup.
It’s lvl of danger is much more greater in 2I due to all of these reasons.
Nobody is picture perfect at parrying, and there are multiple ways to land Denjin, not just neccessarily on knockdown as well. 3S Ryu doesn’t do as well, simply because he was toned down from his 2I counterpart.
Ibuki and Gouki would for the majority win the 2I tournaments though…the more I play 2I, the more their dominance I start to see within their gameplay. However, I still believe we need to play this game more, then the time it was given when it was being played in order to really flesh how the game to it’s core. Because I don’t believe playing it for about a year’s worth is enough.
An my last comment, I was talking about how 2I Yang could possibly be as good as 3S Chunli, if not “maybe” even better. Due simply to the fact that 2I Yang can chain link his lows into Ex’s galore, SA1 with 2-stocks provides him with an easily chainable yet, ridiculous high damaging SuperArt. Not to mention he still has flip grab+Dive kick, and is much, much stronger then his 3S counterpart.
So I’m curious…if they had a HSF3, would he actually be ranked higher then 3S Chunli, or lower? On the last page I did not have them ranked in the same tier listing, with 2I Yang, one lower, however I’m starting to think, that he deserves to be in the same category as Chunli.
I mean…his options are just too good with the dive kicks, and the chains and the super high damaging super which from a damage point is much more than Chunli’s even.
Anyone have a second opinion on this?
Capcom makes a ton of changes to their games; there’s no telling if this was planned for that reason or just random.
Denjin is a great super on paper, but just having it does not guarantee it’s going to land. Without getting into Theoryfighter I just have to say blocked fireball -> Denjin is less than unbeatable.
Having said all this, since there is no scene for this game and Capcom will never make HSF3 (I’m trying to jinx that so they will release it), there is room for flexibility in rankings and especially comparing matchups between games. Like TS said and I’ve mentioned in other threads, one year is not enough.