I just pulled out 2i today, and I’m really lovin’ Yang. He’s a lot of fun, his B&Bs are easy to do and easy to mix up the timing on, and I’m starting to pick up what might be some advanced stuff. Since I don’t really have any sources to go on, I’m just finding things myself. Here’s a few combos for ya:
Any Dive Kick -> S. MP or C.MP or C.MK -> Mantis Slashes or EX Mantis Slashes or xx SAI
Any Dive Kick -> C.MP? xx Palm Push xx SAI
C.MP into stuff as above
S.MP -> Mantis Slashes or EX Mantis Slashes
Random supers sometimes catch people off guard because it’s pretty fast. It makes an excellent punishment move, like Ken’s SA3 in 3rd strike (I don’t think it’s QUITE as fast, but close). Personally I use SA1 over SA3…but it’s your call.
CE. Bison is not overrated, he’s arguably #3 in the entire HSF2:AE game. Since he does way more damage then his CE arcade countepart, and you can’t even re-dizzy combo a character, because they’ll die before you can even finish it. CE. Guile is either #1 or #2 (the other would be CE. Ryu), not only does he dish out great damage, but he dizzies much better then his CE arcade counterpart to boot, since things like Jump in fp. c.mp, rh flashkick with CE. Guile never dizzied in the arcade, but it does in AE.
The reasons why there was alot of ST characters ranked within the Top 8 was simply because most of the players who played HSF2:AE at Evo where for the most part, ST players, since most if not pratically all of the Pre-ST players have all but quit. Jeff did a huge number on Daigo in HSF2:AE using CE. Guile, and this is Daigo throwing out all of the trump cards like CE. Sagat. ST. Rog, ST. Ryu…basically all of his best characters.
CE. Bison although not Unstoppable, because a good Shoto player, Guile will flat out destroy him, however he shouldn’t be underrated as well when more then half of the top 8 place finishers used CE. Bison.
Many of the CE/HF characters are overall better then their ST. versions aside from a select few. Better Damage+better dizzies+better jab’s+for the most part more priority on most attacks+no disadvantage of being teched out of throws. However, HSF2:AE can actually be more balanced, simply due to the fact that their are so many powerful versions, and pratically everysingle character has a countermatchup or close to it.
As for vids of competition for 2I, they are extremely rare to find, I’ve found a few on youtube, but as to how valid they are from a respectable competitive standpoint needs to be answered. However, the players who actually competeted in 2I have done nothing but vouched for 2I Ibuki and 2I Gouki’s prowess…
Here’s a notion from a post…
*" - That said, there’s no way that 2I should get a revival. Whereas 3S legitimately has 3 or 4 top characters, 2I only has two: Gouki/Ibuki are MUCH better than the rest of the cast than Yun/Chun/Ken[Makoto] are better than the others in 3S. If you think the horde of top tier parrots are bad now, a 2I revival would have 1891273987129837 Goukis, and a few Ibukis to counter them (Gouki is much easier to play with and get good at than Ibuki). It would be horrible. You can brag about how good Deijin Ryu, Yang and Sean are in the game (and they’re certainly better than they are in 3S; that goes for most characters, actually), but they will all die to Gouki doing dive kick x N -> whatever and Ibuki doing whatever -> Hashin Sho.
More on Gouki: For those who don’t know, Gouki dive kick is UNPUNISHABLE, either on block or on parry. This, coupled with its insane speed and higher than hell priority, makes it unbeatable. IT BEATS LATE JAB SHOTO DP CLEAN. The only thing that stops it? Ibuki’s DP. 2I Gouki is only slightly less broken than ST Gouki, and the only reason why 2I tournaments didn’t devolved into all Gouki tournaments is because Ibuki can stop him.
More on Ibuki: Ibuki beats a quarter of the cast with s.LP alone. She can walk up and repeatedly LP Alex, Hugo, Urien… and I think Dudley, and there’s not a damn thing they can do to stop it. At any time, she can switch to c.LP, c.LK, and combo to Hashin Sho from there. "*
The only thing I don’t agree upon is that a dragon punch not being able to beat it. However, I’ll do more testing with that statement though. Also, on another note, in a video that I saw of 2I, I saw a Ken land his s.fk on Sean, however it was imediately punished by Sean’s SAIII before Ken could even fully recover from it…damn! Gonna have to try that out, and see if that’s really workable.
The funny thing about this entire debate is that Chun and Yun are equally as dominant as Ibuki and Akuma. Do people realize that Yun and Chun do not have any counter characters besides one another as well. In fact, Sean, Yang,Ken and Ryu have a better chance at Ibuki and Akuma in 2I then Ken and Makoto do agaisnt Chun and Yun in 3s. Besides 2I was only around for a short bit while 3s has been around for the last couple of years. I think people have to seriously stop overating Ibuki and Akuma because there are not any worst then Chun and Yun are in 3s.
That’s not neccessarily true, Ken in many cases can fight Yun better then Chunli, because what’s Chunli going to do up against DiveKicks? Ken fights very solidly against these two, otherwise, if that was the case, we would see even more Yun’s and Chun’s dominating the scene, however Ken is just as dominant, not to mention Makoto is up there as well.
However, it seems that you forgot that Ibuki and Gouki dominated in a game where the characters overall where far more stronger, and yet still, they where a clear cut above the rest. If you threw 2I Sean, 2I Ryu, 2I Yang, 2I Ibuki and 2I Gouki into the frey of 3S. There would be an imediate impact in the tier listing.
Look at Ken from 3S…just how much different is he from his 2I version? Almost nothing aside from Kara-Shoryuken and Cross Up MK. Yet, Ken is ranked #3 within 3S, however look at his 2I version which is exactly like him but w/o the better cross up and No Kara-Shroyuken yet sporting better hit-confirms into SAIII.
He’s ranked at the lower end of Uppertier at the very best. The reason why someone like 3S Ken is so good is because everyone in 2I was severely toned down. Yun, and Chunli do not control the 3S scene with an iron fist, Ken is also very, very dominant, and Makoto is very strong in there as well. They have a strong Top 4.
2I would’ve been no different then 3S in the tierlisting. See here how earlier on within this thread I stated that 2I “could actually” be more balanced then 3S since everyone on the Upper-Mid tier are very strong.
However, after playing it longer now, I can see why Ibuki and Gouki are a clear cut above the rest. The rest of the cast although strong, do not have the options that these two have. 2I Sean as ridiculous as he is, does not have a stupid s.lp like Ibuki or able to combo SA’s in numerous successions like her, with 103948320984 hit-confirmables at her lvl. 2I Sean doesn’t have some stupid Divekick that can blow through 98% (The 2% if Ibuki’s AA and Shoto Shoryuken) of everything that’s in the game.
Why shouldn’t Ibuki or Gouki be ranked higher than 3S Yun or Chunli? Because Ibuki has way better hit-confirms and combo’s, she does excellent damage off of just normals and regular specials, she has way better stun damage potential, she doesn’t need meter to become a threat (Considering that Yun needs Genei-Jin and Chunli is nowhere near the threat that she is without a meter of SAII at hand), her SAIII allows her to land another set of combos+able to land into her SAIII again! Her combo setups that can lead into numerous SAIII’s will lead up to nearly a full stun, if not already depending upon the stun damage on the opponent.
However NG Ibuki is far worst, because her stun damage potential is way higher+higher damage+Infinity. How hard is it to land F.fk for Ibuki’s infinity? Ridiculously easy, and there’s nothing to stop it besides if Ibuki messes up…however, how many people really mess up on doing f.fk? That alone pushes her well beyond 3S Yun or 3Chunli on any given lvl.
Gouki is similair to 2I Ibuki in many fashions, however his Divekick is remember…unpunishable on block or on Parry, and it has phenomenally high priority. What can stop it besides Ibuki AA, or Shoto’s AA like Ryu or Ken’s? However, you’d better be throwing out Psychic dragon punches, because Gouki’s Divekick is insanely fast.
He can do so much damage, ridiculous combo-setups, with better stamina then his 3S counterpart, + SAIII, yet even without resorting to Meter he’s a big threat.
3S Yun and Chunli are great, but look at them. They need meter to be a huge threat. How does Yun do big damage? Genei-Jin. How does Chunli do big damage? Houyouku-Sen. How does Ibuki do big damage? Off of everysingle hit-confirm that she does. How does Gouki do big damage? Everything that starts off from Divekick+more.
3S Chunli shouldn’t even be mentioned among 2I Ibuki and 2I Gouki. Considering 2I Sean and 2I Yang I consider to be even far stronger then 3S Chunli. 2I Sean is a Chunli+Ken combined but with better damage hit for hit + with Far Superior Ex-Options to go with it which can also link into SAIII btw+better stun damage potential. 2I Yang is far more versatile then 3S Chunli on any given lvl+better hit-confirms into SA, way better Ex-Options+Divekicks.
Only 3S Yun do I rank better then these two, and in my honest opinion, he barely ranks over these two characters. However 3S Yun is not 2I Ibuki or 2I Gouki good, and definetly not NG Ibuki good. My explanation is this, Ibuki and Gouki have vastly superior combobility+excellent damage off of just regular normals and regular supers+better stun damage potential+being a big threat regardless of if they have meter or not. Yet they “shouldn’t” be above or better then 3S Yun or 3S Chunli?
On another note, I’ve been tweaking with the NG characters…and by gosh, they do ridiculous damage and stun. Everyone in NG infact just does stupid damage+stun. I was so wrong when I stated that NG Sean only does half-stun with c.mk into tornado, infact, it fills up around nearly 70% of the stun bar alone!
That’s madness, considering if there was any stun that was there before hand, that would mean quick and easy stun+damage…and that ='s your screwed. I was messing around with Oro after I saw a youtube of his crazy setups that can work on everysingle character…wow, just simply, wow.
After I play NG more, I’ll need to revamp my tier listing, some of the characters on there besides NG Ibuki are not recieving the credit they deserve.
Guys, get on kaillera and lets play some double impact.
I would like more people to play, theres only a few people on there I know I can always play double impact with.
If you don’t know about kaillera or playing street fighter online, just go to the computer and handheld thread in online section for details on how to set it up and where to download.
Got a question about Yang-
How can I successfly get all hits of his SA II to connect after the following combo-
Jumping :mk:, :df:+:mk:–>St. :mk:–>:qcf:+:mk:
Sometimes I get all hits, sometimes I get one hit and Yang is open for attacks.
I agree TS, 3s Chun isn’t as good without a meter nor is 3s Yun. I still have reservations about Ibuki and Akuma though, im convinced there is some type of counter-match agaisnt them besides one anotther. I also agree about other characters not getting the credit they deserve, I mean oro is a freaking powerhouse in NG. Im still curious about why NG necro is considered so good, does it have anything to do with having 2 stocks for his SA1.
To those who don’t think Akuma Dive kick is unpunishable on block or parry, please try it. In an actual match against someone good. I’m curious, cause I’ve never seen it done even at CTF.
Also, I’d like to know what moves can actually hit it besides Ibuki’s DP. I’ve seen it stuff shoto DP on start up. It will lose to supers like Shin Shoryuken and SHinryuken, but a) you’ll never see anyone good using those supers, and b) even if they were good, when Akuma is doing Dive Kick x N and leaving you in block stun for long periods of time, you get no opportunity to build meter (this was also why Ibuki hosed the likes of Alex, Urien and Hugo; they could conceivably super Ibuki out of jab trap, but they never ever got a chance to build meter; this is one of the reasons why 3S is more balanced than 2I - all characters gain meter much more quickly).
HSF3’s god tier would be 2I Akuma, NG Ibuki and 2I Ibuki. I’m not certain if NG Ibuki is better than 2I Ibuki because while NG Ibuki has infinite, 2I Ibuki has EX DP. But they’ll definitely tear up much of the rest of the cast.
The next tier would NG Oro (no one else can kill a character with 100% life for trying to block), 2I Sean, NG Yun/Yang (it’s a toss up as to who’s more brainless between 2I Sean and them; even 2I Akuma needs to turtle against Ibuki; 2I Sean and NG Y/Y never change their strategy against any one), and 2I Yang. Probably NG Necro as well. Maybe 2I Deijin Ryu, but I’m not certain.
It’s only at the next tier would I put 3S Yun and Chun-li. Seriously, they really only beat up the cast in 3S because all the other good characters got worse, and the shitty characters like Hugo and Alex, while improved, are still shit (the exception would be Urien, who was the only shit character in 2I to get much improved in 3S). I might consider putting them in the bottom of the above tier, but no higher. 3S Ken, 2I Yun, and the rest of 3S’ second tier would go here as well.
After that, it would be one big tier of 2I and NG mid-tier characters, with a few stragglers from 3S. Lower tier would be 3S lower tier characters (Hugo, Q, Alex, Remy). And your bottom tier would be 2I Hugo, NG Alex, 2I Alex, Twelve, 3S Sean, and NG Elena.
Divekick can be punished on parry. Is it difficult to punish? Yes. Can you punish it with every move in the game? No. Does this make it unpunishable? No.
Shoto DP should beat this move unless done at the end of the DP. Divekick is especially weak underneath Gouki’s body.
There is no “god tier”. God tier is COTA magneto. As far as we know no one in this game has 10-0 matches against everyone else.
I’d like to see the arguments for Hugo getting a net improvement in 3S.
If it is punishable then with what? That’s what I’d like to know, because seriously, 2I Gouki’s Divekick is the most deadly single regular special attack within the game. I’m not trying to say that what your saying is bs, because from what I’ve experienced and can tell, I can’t seem to punish it besides what I stated earlier with Ibuki DP or Shoto Dragonpunch…but outside of that, what can punish it consistently from a parry?
Also, I do believe NG Ibuki and 2I Ibuki and Gouki are a clear cut above the rest. I don’t see how there can’t be a God Tier, considering even in a game like T4, Jin stood well above the rest and was ranked all by his lonesome, with only one bad matchup and that wasn’t even a huge handicap matchup as well.
I don’t see anyone within NG/2I/3S who could possibly hang with these three and not have a difficult matchup. Although personally for me, I would actually place NG Ibuki by herself.
Ultima, I pushed NG Ibuki above 2I Ibuki/Gouki simply because Infinity is just way too easy to do, it’s too good and it’s lvl of effeciency is way too high. I mean, it can land after SAIII which is just simply stupid, and if your caught off guard, you can simply get infinited, and it works everywhere regardless.
I will admit, Ex-DP is very good, but I still edge out NG Ibuki because the infinity and that being a NG character she also does better damage+stun.
That’s cool to hear more about NG Oro, however I did hear that NG Y/Y where extremely good…however I don’t know what really makes them good? If possible could you explain more on that matter…also I’ve heard alot about NG Necro, what’s with him?
Just so everyone knows, 2I Alex is better then he is in 3s. He has a shorter bar, better stun/damage output and he can super off a LP flash chop. He isn’t exactly that much better then he is in 3s, but its a improvment regardless.
Now on the whole “tier ranking” ill post what I think it would look like:
Consistency is what I’m looking for, just because you can sorta punish it…however it’s still hard to do so does not count. If this was the case, we would’ve seen this already.
I’m not sure what your problem is. If the move were unpunishable, there would be no reason to use any other technique. “Sorta punish it” nothing, there are opportunities to punish the move on parry, period. I don’t know how to make this any more clear.
Maybe you never played this game in the arcades? When people used Gouki, they had to use techniques other than jump, d+mk. If this were not true, it’s something we would have seen already.
I still think Akuma and Ibuki are only slightly better then everyone else, i dont know why so many people are wanking them so much. The dive kick isnt some"uber, God move" or anything.
Gill (me) vs. Gill (CPU). First round of the fight, and it’s getting close (made some bad parry attempts, ate a few moves I shouldn’t’ve). Our meters are also getting close to filling. Since I want him DOWN before he can Resurrect, I go on offense, and I attempt to stuff a Moonsault Knee Drop with my cr.FP.
We trade hits, and I hear “K.O”, and I figure out I lost… but my meter fills from the trade. What happens next is strange. I hit the ground, and then 'cause I got KOed with ‘full meter’, I Resurrect. The game hangs.
Perhaps a bug like this is why they kept him unplyable…
They’re both the first tier, how much better than everyone else is hard to say because there is zero competition for this game.
The reason Gouki is good is not just the dive kick. It’s a combination of that, plus the fact that even if you adjust for Second Impact’s higher game speed he’s still an extra 50% faster than he is in Third Strike. Plus he had dangerous SA3 options, a slightly modified, easy to land B&B (no jump in necessary) into SA3 is 48% damage to Ryu.
