Strategy vs Execution: Where do you stand?

I’d missed them saying that hard execution is required for skill progression.

I don’t think there’s been a single less true statement in this entire thread, and there have been some humdingers.

yeah dude i gotta grind on the stair walker before walking up stairs.
how did you learn?

Strategy is more important.

Who cares how good your training mode combos are if you don’t even know how to get in to actually execute them.

Lets have an example. MVC3 and Morrigan with Mr. Dr. Doom. The strategy is to force you to eat chip till you die, and punish reckless mistakes with a combo. execution enters in the form of soul fist xx flight soul fist whatever. and the actual combos. The great strategy is that its all favorable for ya anyway. you can choose to go for a TAC in Dr. Doom or mop up and go into more spam.

If the opponent counters the TAC Morrigan is full screen and it’s time for more Soul Fist, and if the TAC succeeds Doom goes in, builds meter, kills you and Morrigan comes back anyway.

Walking is still easy, but I can still get better at it easily.

If I walk and read at the same time, I can totally get better at both!

The point is that there are a ton of different types of skill, and a ton of different ways to improve. Even if execution were easy you’d be able to improve your skills in all the other ways.

The funny thing is that high execution barriers get in the way, because while it’s true that you can practice execution in standard play its many many many times less efficient than practicing execution in training mode. Avoiding things being extra hard actually streamlines improving your skill.

I agree, I think high execution stuff should be optional and not required. That way it doesn’t turn into a grindfest and at the same time it doesn’t make your high execution worthless.

Bleh, I honestly can’t see this thread going anywhere beyond people posting the same thing over and over again. Lets not push our preferences on others and accept it, then move on.

shoultz, you’re wrong on this one, bro… while i share some of your sentiments as to the importance of exe, p4a is like, 09-syndrome to the extreme… the only difference is that the depth of the characters themselves weren’t watered down like the execution requirements.

I will admit some ignorance on p4a, probably wasn’t a good idea to a use that game as an example since I don’t know that much about it

Think 2-button DPs/reversals, 1-button “auto-combo” (to super if you have meter), 2-button overhead that leads to launcher if you mash buttons.

I was thinking about it, this whole discussion is a bit of a trap. “Which is more important, one skill or the combination of 7-8 other skills?”

PS kind of impressed he keeps coming back after the beatings.

Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express

I’d like to compare FG rather with Backgammon. Strategy and tactics play an important role, but in the end the one who knows how to manipulate the dices (so many doubles!) is more likely to win.

My point was that it doesn’t require execution. There isn’t a magically way to get certain rolls by rolling specific way. So why compare too different things.

I love your superior attitude even though you can’t play shit. Who the fuck beat me again? how the fuck do you determine a score in an argument, how many likes you get off your qualitative opinion? give me a break. You don’t know how to play shit, your opinion is trash because of it.

notice he was pointing out I was wrong about an example I was using and not how I was wrong about what I was saying about execution. In fact, he actually agreed with me on execution dumbass

I noticed how basic fact-checking wasn’t worth your time.

Games getting a lot of love from the fgc, that must mean it has execution barriers, right?


About those chess comparisons, I think it's more about showing the way skill growth is not necessarily tied to execution.

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Reposting wall of text from last page just to annoy all the reading averse people.

http://thomashunter.name/batman-comic/gen/20120806070652_501fcf7c36e96.jpg

And for the rest of the people:

http://thomashunter.name/batman-comic/gen/20120806070956_501fd0348de21.jpg

Game designers know what is more important between the two? That’s fucking new to me. I thought they just designed games.

Every good player knows that it is 50/50 between the two which may skew on one side or the other depending on the game/character. Infiltration vs Daigo was infils superior execution and strategy taking it. His near frame perfect FADCs that locked down Daigos fireballs and punished him EVERY TIME was the game changer for it. He’d probably have a much harder time strategizing against daigo since he has had to deal with those fireballs. Since he pretty much eliminated fireballs from being used, he 1 uped daigo becuase of execution. That match pretty much makes any argument in this thread against execution and saying it is not important void. You see everything in that match. Execution is not just combos. idk maybe if some here actually played the games they’d know that.

Hold on. How do they know that?

Top player or scrub, anybody and everybody should know this. It’s common sense.

This *should *be every fighting game designer’s goal.

But why should it? What’s the gain, except for the old ‘I don’t want to lose to somebody worse than me’ chestnut?

Obviously on a basic level execution is important, and execution can carry you just as much as ‘strategy’ does (the original polling question was asked very poorly phrased). Still, there’s a point of diminishing returns on that… and that’s when the ‘strategic’ side comes to the fore.

The relationship simply isn’t static.

Read Shoultzula’s posts, come back and then laugh at the pictures.

Edit: Just for you though

http://thomashunter.name/batman-comic/gen/20120806172207_50205faf84310.jpg