mules=free money. If the terran player does nothing but turtle the zerg player will expand everywhere and have like 5X’s more money then him. Saying the terran player doesnt let him. Though you have to attack zerg other wise they will take all the money on the map, leaving you with what you got.
what does it mean to “sac overlord”? I guess it means sacrificing your overlord? k, that explains it. I’ve done this a lot lately…
One thing that I notice a lot of zerg players don’t do is build a second hatchery in their main. Early game, yes you are at a disadvantage against pressure because of the hatchery mechanic, but the idea is to be able to turn that early game weakness into late game power. Does zerg have that late game advantage? I don’t think it’s strong enough to counter their weak early game, but I have to say Ultra / Brood Lords can be so fucking demolishing when used right. In order to help push that advantage, I notice that Koreans will often times push out extra hatcheries in their main/outside their natural once they reach the mid game for that extra unit count and ability to pump units. It might feel like a waste to use the 350 minerals to have access to that unit producing larvae, but you are still spending less than Protoss/terran does since it’s roughly equivalent to 2 gateways/barracks and a lot of times its better to have the hatchery in your main where you can protect it instead of expanding too thin and leaving yourself open. It’s really map dependent I think, if you can’t take a third easily then don’t force the issue.
Last night we were talking about the queen range increase, if you give zerg an easy answer to all terran harassment, it’s not fair to Terran. Zerg has such a hard time defending itself early game because it fast expands; all races have a hard time doing that. But zerg does it because it leads to a greater advantage later on. Basically Zerg has gotten too greedy over wanting to expand all over the map and expects to be able to defend a fast expand as easily as protoss defends single base play. Just because you play Zerg doesn’t mean you should be given a free second base. Hellions/Reapers/2 gates (pre nerf and possibly post nerf) puts a check on that behavior I think. Of course I don’t play Z so I may be way off base, but thats just my view from playing against them
Edit: Sac Overlord is when you send an overlord into your opponents base to see what they have building wise, fully knowing it’s going to die to marines/stalkers/hydras, so you sacrifice it to scout
This.
I think I was just influenced way too much with SC1 by Flash-style heavy turtling into massive pushes–that really, REALLY does not work in this game. From what I can tell with my (limited) experience, TvZ is all about early and constant pressure on zerg with biodrops and biomech micro-pushes. Because if you turtle for even a second, zerg expands 2, 3, 4 times. And then you get run over by ultras.
That sounds nice in theory but what ends up happening is that too much of the zerg’s supply is taken up by drones/queens which makes their army numbers suffer.
I always build in base hatcheries and I do a lot of 1 base builds and defending against harass is still hard. I suggested increasing the queen’s range by 2 to 5. This means that reapers and hellions won’t be able to kite the queen anymore. The conflict here is that you think this will completely nullify all terran harass. I think harass will still be completely viable it just won’t dominate like it does now. Keep in mind that reapers and hellions are still faster than a queen and until zerg gets speedlings upgraded they’re still entirely vulnerable. Also if the terran commits to the harass and begins massing up reapers or hellions the zerg will still have to commit and transition into roaches. All the queens range increase would do is allow the zerg be able to put up some modest defense until speedlings are out, the queen by no means will just hard counter reaper or hellion harass.
IMO, the overall design of the MULE mechanic is bad for a few reasons. It’s intended to be Terran’s macro accelerant to sit beside Inject/CB but a few issues stand in its way of being fair. This is all just my opinion and some of it is probably wrong from the grandest scheme of balance so take it with a grain of salt.
#1: Compared to Inject/Chrono it actually just gives you money. Z/P macro mechanics simply make it so that they can spend the money they already have FASTER.
#2: Orbital Commands that save up energy can represent gigantic leaps of income with no skill required by dropping several MULEs at once and even better if they were able to float an OC over to a high yield.
#3: The amount of one base strategies T can come up with because of MULEs is too good. Ironically this issue wouldn’t even be that big a deal if the maps were different. However with the way current ladder maps work every map has plenty of ramps, confined runways, and lots of simply difficult terrain. This allows an even remotely skilled Terran player to successfully deny scouting while having the best 1 base potential of any race.
Eh.
2 hatches in main base only really works in ZvZ where you can use it to help choke your ramp, or hide a 2nd hatch from your opponent. It way too easy for a protoss or terran to block their ramp. The normal Korean method seems to be dropping a 4th hatch in your main or natural around the same time you take a 3rd base, when your mineral income explodes.
Ok, check this out: On Battle.net create a game, then in search type “Metalopolis - SRK Zerg Test Changes”
The map includes all the revised changes that Corner-Trap proposed for zerg
you can use it to test out the balance and see what you think once its all laid out in practice
Though small ultralisks make me sad
At 2 armor 1 supply, what zerg player WONT be getting roaches out asap? So you made harass weaker early, then you made it easier to mass stronger roaches. So yes, those units will not be used versus Z with these changes, it will just be straight to banshee harass. Theoretically of course, thats why I made the map so its not all theory fighter : )
I’m beginning to see Terran move to mineral patches that are not land-accessible at the beginning of games. Sucks because while you’re busy figuring out where he went, he’s pumping out banshees/reapers and harassing you to oblivion. They should take out the ability of command centers to pick up units.
If a terran does that to you, its a free win because he’s so far behind you economically. Theres no way he should be able to pump those units before you
2 base 3 hatch has been standard stuff since bw days and is still fairly standard today, what are you talking about?
Actually I was thinking of removing the zergling changes so a complete list would look like:
Queen- Increase ground range by 2
Spine Crawler- Decrease build time by 10
Roach- Increase armor by 1, decrease supply by 1, remove tunneling claws upgrade and remove rapid regeneration ability
Infestor- Allow all abilities to be used while burrowed
Ultralisk- Decrease the size of the character model and remove ram ability
Either way thanks and this is a more constructive way of theory crafting. Also smaller ultras are cute.
If you scouted with regular timing you should find out something is wrong when they aren’t at any bases. At this point you should be very far ahead in economy and tech. Personally I think terrans who fly away in the beginning are putting themselves at a serious handy cap.
it all depends if the terran player kills off his expos. You cant just sit and build the whole game without attacking, thats fucking noobish. And you will lose every time, show me koreans that do nothing but sit and build and dont ever attack, because that never happens
Huh? Maybe if you didn’t snip the quote I would know what you’re talking about. I looked my previous posts and have no idea what you’re replying to.
flash
Yeah, I agree that MULE mechanic isn’t very well designed. I bet if they could do it over again they’d do it differently
Well the inaccessible base was right next to him. Also this was a 4v4 game. We honestly didn’t realize where he was until midgame because like cannon rushing you hardly expect it.
4v4 should make it even easier, when your scouting reveals the terran is gone the 4 of you rush his 3 partners and kill them
if you guys didnt scout theres your problem, you can lose to all sorts of off the wall stuff if you dont scout
Maybe it’s just me, but I believe that they are modifying the MULE mechanic in the next patch. They are adding a cool down feature I believe. The last couple of pages have been fun and great to ready, but why aren’t we debating the REAL CHANGES that are going to take effect in a couple of days!!! Like someone else said, that would be more productive RIGHT now.
Maps:
- Destructible Rocks have been added to the natural expansions of Desert Oasis, and the center has been narrowed.
- Various ladder maps have been added.
General:
- Ground Units of type Psionic now have vision in the air plane.
Protoss:
- Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38 seconds.
- Zealot warp-in cooldown increased from 23 to 28 seconds.
- Warp Prisms now unload their cargo instantly while in Phasing Mode.
- Chronoboost cooldown increased from 0 to 20 seconds.
- Dark Shrine build time decreased from 100 to 80.
- Dark Shrine cost decreased from 100 minerals 250 gas to 100 minerals 200 gas.
- Carrier cost increased from 350 minerals 250 gas to 400 minerals 250 gas.
- Carriers now spawn with four Interceptors prebuilt.
Terran:
- Reaper build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds.
- Bunker build time increased from 30 to 35 seconds.
- Siege Mode damage decreased from 50 to 35, +15 armored.
- Siege Mode damage upgrades per level changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored.
- Battlecruiser damage vs. ground decreased from 10 to 8.
- Calldown MULE cooldown increased from 0 to 40 seconds.
- Planetary Fortress build time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds.
- 250 mm Cannons research time decreased from 110 to 80 seconds.
- 250 mm Cannons cost decreased from 150 minerals 150 gas to 100 minerals 100 gas.
- 250 mm Cannons may now be used on friendly and neutral structures and units.
Zerg:
- Ultralisk damage decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored.
- Ultralisk Ram attack removed.
- Nydus Worms can now be cancelled and refunded while building.
- Overlord base speed increased to from 0.469 to 0.938.
- Overlord upgraded speed increase from 1.875 to 2.344.
- Overlords can now use Excrete Creep while moving.
- Overlord base speed now decreases from 0.938 to 0.469 while Excrete Creep is active.
- Overlord upgraded speed now decreased from 2.344 to 1.875 while Excrete Creep is active.
- Spawn Larvae energy cost reduced to 20 from 25.
Bugfixes:
- Fixed a bug that caused cloaked units to cast shadows.
- Fixed a bug where Larva would sometimes accidently die by walking off cliffs.
- Fixed a bug where a Nuclear Strike target could be hid behind a Lair.
- Fixed a bug that allowed SCVs to construct halted buildings from within Bunkers.
- Fixed a netcode bug that enabled players to warp in Immortals from Warp Gates.
- Fixed a bug that caused Random players to not see their cursor during the loading screen.
- Fixed a bug where Changelings morphed slower while coming into range of enemy units than when dropped from an Overseer over enemy units.
General:
- Improved the functionality of voice chat.
- Manually queued waypoints can now be set to all 5 basic commands.
- Numerous performance and stability improvements.
Whoa where were these patch notes? I only knew of a few things, like the Reaper and Zealot nerfs…where did you get this?
Guess they won’t be fixing the slight delay in gathering minerals this time?