Like I said the units zerg already have is fine enough, they just need a bit of re balancing. We don’t need cutesy spell casters or any additional units. That is simply not zerg’s style of play, aside from the defiler they didn’t really have another spell caster in BW (unless you count the never used queen).
Was that portrait only in the beta?
Huh, I thought it was in the full release too. That’s a shame, I always liked that portrait. I mean look at that dude, he’s not scared, he’s not eager, he’s just going to win the motherfucking game.
Word, I was gonna start rockin’ that.
Holy shit @ Tester vs. NEXFreeSaga Game 3
Post links to these awesome replays!!!
Here is a full list of changes I would like to see for the Zerg. Comments are welcome.
Zergling- Decrease attack cool down by .096 and adrenal gland upgrade decreases attack cool down by .2
Queen- Increase attack range by 2 (ground)/1 (air), damage by 1 (ground/air), and hit points by 25
Spine Crawler- Decrease build time by 10 and root time by 2
Spore Crawler- Decrease root time by 2
Baneling-Increase attack range by .75 and allow explode to be set on auto cast
Roach- Increase armor by 1, decrease supply by 1, remove tunneling claws upgrade, and remove rapid regeneration ability
Infestor- Allow all abilities to be used while burrowed
Ultralisk- Decrease the size of the character model and remove the ram ability
Notes
[details=Spoiler]**Out of the 3 initial combat units (marine, zergling, zealot) the zergling is the only one to have it’s DPS reduced coming into SC2. Once the opponent reaches a critical mass of ranged units it becomes really hard to get your zerglings into a position to attack, so if you actually manage to get your zerglings close enough you should be rewarded with good damage. With the way things are now the marine actually has a higher DPS than a zergling. Combine that with the fact that marines have longer range, more life, and can attack air. At the very least a zergling should have a higher DPS as it was in BW. Decreasing their attack cool down by .096 to .6 instead of .696 isn’t a lot but it’s enough to give them a higher DPS. This also allows them to more reliablly deal with 2 gate zealot pressure from protoss in the early game. Normally it should take 4 zerglings to take down a zealot but in many occasions you can get a bad position and not form a surround. This slightly reduced attack cool down will allow for 4 zerglings to more reliably take down 1 zealot. In BW the adrenal gland upgrade decreased a zergling’s attack cool down by 33%, in SC2 it decreases it by a mere 16-17%. This is basically the equivalent of 1 melee attack upgrade which would streamline better with a build considering the late game options between ultras and BL’s. By having the adrenal gland upgrade decrease attack cool down by .2 will return it to a 33% reduction and make it worth getting. These buffs though are more of returning the zergling to how it was in BW than actual buffs.
*In most cases the queen upgrades are entirely trivial except during the early game in ZvT. With an attack range of 5 on the ground and 5(x2) damage they can more reliably deal with reaper/hellion harass. The queen can no longer be kited, it will take less hits to kill a reaper/hellion, and it takes more hits for a reaper/hellion to kill a queen. Also by the time the zerg reaches tier 2 units a terran can already be at tier 3. So now with an attack range of 8 against air and 10 damage they can handle banshee rushes (or void ray rushes from the protoss) better since they’re the only available anti-air (outside of spore crawlers) at the hatchery level. Of course this won’t turn queens into direct combat units since they’re still the slowest ground unit in the game while off creep.
*With the buff to zerglings and queens the zerg can more reliably handle early game harass. Of course though after an opponent does some early game harass they follow up with a mid game push around the time the zerg finally get their expansion up and running. Once scouted the typical zerg response is to stop producing drone, begin producing whatever combat units you can and lay down some spine crawlers. The problem though is that even if you scout the push coming as soon as they leave their base your spine crawlers could potentially not even be finish building by the time they get to your base because of their ridiculously long 50 second build time. That’s why suggest reducing the build time by 10. The root time reduction of 2 for both the spine and spore crawlers was so that repositioning them didn’t leave you vulnerable for as long.
*Unburrow can already be set on auto cast which can turn banelings in to the SC2 version of spider mines from BW where they pop up when another unit comes near them then chases them down. What would be even better is if explode could be set on auto cast meaning they can act like land mines. This will allow the zerg to make dead zones where units can’t pass in the same way terrans can do with siege tanks. The increase in attack range by .75 to 1 was just so banelings can actually attack while behind a zergling surround. Many times you’ll just see your banelings go unused circling around the enemy because the zerglings are in the way.
*The roach changes were so that it can better fulfill it’s role as a cost efficient tank. They’re meant to absorb damage while the really damage dealers can do their job. Since they already tank damage so well they shouldn’t be able to heal all that damage quickly so I felt it was best to remove the rapid regeneration ability to balance it out. Also I felt the tunneling claws ability was very uncharacteristic for the unit design, why should a unit meant to tank damage also be a stealth unit? It’s like giving cloak to a marauder. This also means that being able to move while burrowed is a uniquely given to the infestor only. With the buff to roaches and the nerf to siege tanks, hydralisks become more viable in ZvT indirectly.
*Players are always suggesting that zerg needs a tier 3 spell caster unit which I feel is entirely unnecessary since the infestor already fulfills that role (it just happens to be tier 2). I always liked the idea that they could use their infested terran ability while burrowed so I was never sure why they couldn’t use their other two abilities. In most cases if a terran player includes siege tanks into their unit composition the infestor will die before making sufficient use of their abilities. Being able to cast while burrowed while allow them to more reliably make use of their abilities and make players worry about detection. This also means that neural parasite will be useful again since how it is now the infestor dies as soon as they take control of unit since they’ll get target fired immediately.
I’m really disliking how blizzard is proposing a damage nerf to ultralisks. Like with the zergling it’s hard to get them in range to do damage, so if you do get them in range they should be dealing good damage. A big problem with ultras is that they’re simply too big. Sure they look cool but functionally it’s a bad idea. They end up blocking other units like zerglings from attacking and can crowd choke point making them hard to navigate. Shrinking their character model doesn’t seem like much of a buff but it’s a huge difference. Also blizzard already announced that the building attack is being removed which is a good thing. It had nearly the same DPS as the ultras normal attack, less so against smaller tightly packed buildings since it doesn’t deal splash damage. This also means that if ultras attack a planetary fortress they can kill the scvs that are trying to repair it in the process.[/details]
yeah im looking for that tester replay from last night.
i missed it
That’s a pretty good list… if you want zerg to dethrone terran as the overpowered race. Are these upgrades taking into consideration the nerf that is expected for terran and protoss?
Naw I don’t think any of that will make zerg overpowered. Please point out what individually is wrong with what I said instead of making blanket statements. Also I’m entirely against the changes they’re making to terran and protoss outside of the siege tank nerf. Did you read the note section at all?
I can’t really point out individually what’s wrong with your changes because individually they aren’t overpowering, but together they are just overkill. Also what’s the point of this list if you’re not even taking into account the upcoming changes?
here are the links to the gsl vods (posted by dreaded fist a few pages back). they are in chinese and korean (you won’t be able to access the english vods unless you pay for the season pass or watch the english stream).
here is the link to the awesome tester match. so gdlk.
So you’re calling my changes overpowered for no reason. The changes to the spine crawler, spore crawler, baneling, and ultralisk will basically go unnoticed. The changes to the queen will only affect the early game. The only truly drastic changes are to the zergling, roach and infestor. The changes the zergling are just putting them back to where they used to be in BW. The changes to the roach just make them weaker versions of what they were in the beta (be happy I didn’t suggest bringing organic carapace back). The changes to the infestor just mean that players need to bring detection, which good players do anyways. None of these changes are overpowered individually or when combined. Most of them are subtle and will only affect isolated instances.
Also this is a list of changes I would like to see, that’s why I’m not acknowledging the upcoming changes, it’s what I want to see not what will happen. You’re simply overreacting because you see a long list of changes without considering how they affect the game.
I don’t think replays will be released since they never upload pros replays. I wish the Chinese site didn’t have the Chinese commentary.
If you just go to youtube and search for the match’s name, you might find the vod but it won’t be there long as Gom is on top of it.
I’d like to see reapers be able to stim. It makes sense because they’re the most dangerous criminals rehabilitated.
stimmed reapers would def be a nono, especially with nitro packs
[media=youtube]8pdLjI0_DQs[/media] :O!
mass ravens?!
I like corner traps idea about making infestor’s have all their abilities while burrowed. THAT would be awesome. As I see it, there’s no reason why the zerg shouldn’t have a permanently burrowed unit.
I saw that, and I was like oh snap, that’s pretty damn good. It seems completely counter-intuitive how an army consisting of only a spellcasting unit actually managed to win the game. Every few minutes of the game, I was expecting the ravens to be destroyed by thor/vikings, but that never happened.
Honestly, I think the Bob Terran guy made 2-3 mistakes: first, he let greenpine expand to all those places for free. He was WAY too passive about that; if he had at least snuffed out a couple expos, he could have slowed down that mass raven production and had a better fighting chance. Also, I would have liked to see ghosts. EMP would have been pretty useful in this situation. Honestly, the biggest thing was that Bob Terran LET greenpine build up his raven levels to critical mass.
But regardless, that was a fascinating game. Not sure how practical a mass raven strat is, but fascinating nonetheless.
Mauraders, you are the bane of my existence. MM can eat a fat dick.
Here are some random TvZ observations I’ve made. It’s generally accepted that a maxed out fully upgraded terran army will beat a maxed out fully upgraded zerg army. It’s also generally accepted that zerg needs to be 1 to 2 bases ahead of the terran in order to keep up in income and production. A common scenario is that zerg will be on three bases fully saturated with around 66 workers (22 to fully saturate each base) along with a queen at each one, this takes up a total supply of 72. At the same time a terran can be on 2 fully saturated bases with 44 works and constantly muling yet will still be equal with the zerg in terms of income and production despite being 1 base short and 22 less workers.
So not only does a terran beat a zerg if they clash maxed out armies, in a more realistic scenario the zerg will have a much smaller army since more supply is taken up by drones/queens in order for them to keep up in income and production. Usually a zerg can harass to keep the opposing army count down, but the terran defense is so strong that they can turtle and force a stale mate until they get a maxed out army and feel like pushing out. At this point the zerg just helplessly throws waves of units in an attempt to whittle down that ball of death as it takes out the zerg expansions one by one.
Just some things to think about.
EDIT:
Most people would suggest either getting rid or changing MULE’s in some way. Others would suggest increasing the overall supply cap past 200. Personally I think that some zerg units should just have their supply lowered. For example making roaches 1 supply and ultralisks 4 supply.