How in god’s name does protoss deal with Maurauder? They come out so fast and they can get so many so quickly.
I use Zealots to tank while I target fire in the back with Stalkers. Once my Zealots are about to die I retreat with Stalkers, warp in another round, and go again.
I believe it will be best 2 out of 3 in the finals or something like that
shouldnt blink help? or air? since Maurauders cant do anything vs air
I hate Protoss vs Protoss.
Dude have you even played as toss? Blink stalkers? Regular stalkers will be getting wtfpwned by marauders until blink gets researched and as a result you don’t have extra gates or the money to make them useful because you’re rushing towards blink instead of actual forces where as the terran will just 3 rax push for victory. Even if you managed to get blink in the face of that most of your army would be dead and it wouldn’t make the biggest difference against marauders as they’re still taking shit tons of damage with every shot.
Air? What do you suggest? Void rays that get conveniently countered by the OTHER unit he’s probably going to make from his barracks? Phoenixes to graviton beam some marauders? Carriers? Again these are awful ideas because you need a few phoenixes at least to make the graviton useful so you’d probably have to hide your tech to stop him from just massing marines and void rays suffer from a similar fate while at the same time representing a huge over investment of both mins and gas.
The counter is clearly mother ship rush.
Seriously though…it seems the best way to deal with marauders is to deal with them on a different term than the T making a push into your base. If you’re really good about sentry usage and those FFs you can keep out the marauders long enough to have immortals at which point you can start pushing out. I’d advise getting a robotics bay and start getting colossi with extended lances asap as well. Other than that I’d keep a somewhat standard gate way mixture…if I’m confident my opponent isn’t going to build viks anytime soon to counter the colossi I might go more zealot/sentry heavy than stalker but that would probably require an observer in his base or something.
Immortals backed by colossi are your best bet imo though. And yes, it is bull shit that you have to go tier 2/3 to counter tier 1.5.
no i dont play i toss, i was kind of asking what to use
IPA // 587
Diamond Zerg
Up for casuals – specifically need work against quality Ts (5 rax reaper rush, bio-ball or mech push).
My ideal army against terran is chargelots, stalkers with blink, and colossi. The stalkers don’t really need blink until the colossi starts pumping out, even then its not that necessary since their main function is to defend the colossi against potential vikings. I haven’t seen this strategy fail yet. Only once did I incorporate void rays to attack the terran’s expansion while my main force attacked his main base. That way if my main force gets wiped out or something at least there’s a chance his economy will suffer for it.
FF to defend the early push. Push out with zealots/stalkers to make sure he doesn’t FE. Tech to colossus. Then tech to templar archives for storm. The key is to get away with making as little immortals as possible as they cost hella, move slow, have bad range, and really aren’t that great against a large number of marauders.
If he gets vikings and you have even armies, try to harass with your colossi (if you’re confident enough) while playing defensive. If he makes too many vikings, he won’t have a good ground army.
irrenicus uploaded a good video commentary by Husky a few pages back that I’m too lazy to dig up
since then I went from 20% win ratio vs terran in platinum to roughly 80% so its helped
bottom line, immortals slaughter marauders and they slaughter tanks (until they get EMP then you are fucked)
right now i just get a gate, a robo, then a second gate. you’re kind of vulnerable at the start since you dont have much defense, so you gotta have some sentries with force field as insurance; i’ve been lucky, none of my opponents rush me. i get immortal first cause im paranoid, then obs. if terran has expanded and i can take it, i attack. if not, i expand as well and then tech to colossus and get 4+ warp gates. a mix of zealot stalker as main army with a sprinkling of immortal/collosus will be able to answer pretty much everything. leave observers along the main path, if you see him push out with tanks, hit them while they are on the move. until the new patch tank nerf you never want to attack them while sieged.
my games usually end in loss or victory at this point, but i think lots of players go chargelot/templar at this point, which can answer a lot of terran combos. not sure when/how to gracefully transition into it though, hopefully day 9 covers that
Playing as Terran I feel Marauders are so OP. Bonus damage to other races Tier 1.5 unit, slow, and they’re not worthless late game.
Can’t help but feel they’ll nerd Marauders soon…
Has any T players thought about going vikings instead of thors against Z in response to a spire? Players always say that vikings are terrible against mutas but I find that to only be somewhat true. In large numbers yes mutas can handle vikings effectively, but in small numbers the exact opposite is true. I used the unit tester and 1v1 a viking beats a muta, 3v3 the vikings will beat mutas and have 1-2 left over, and 5v5 vikings still win and have 3 left over. I’ve tested this multiple times and it isn’t until you get around 8+ mutas where their bounce attack matters that you’ll see the mutas win. Micro doesn’t matter much in this battle since vikings have longer range but mutas have faster movement speed, so neither one can really weave in and out once engaged. I’ve also tested using +1 armor on the vikings and they will actually win even in large number confrontations because of how much it reduces the mutalisks bounce attack. Either way large number confrontations against singular unit types are rarely seen so saying that mutas ever counter vikings is just impractical.
I originally thought of this because Z players are really understanding how to beat thors, i.e. spreading out their mutas to negate the splash damage (the radius is very small actually) and abusing the thors relative immobility by forcing them to run around chasing them. Vikings don’t have a problem chasing down mutas and also unlike thors, vikings have a use past countering mutas. They can be set on patrol through expansions to scout and snipe stray overloads in the process. This also forces a ultralisk transition on the Z since BL’s get countered by vikings.
I’ve also been going with bio builds over mech in TvZ. Ling/bling is a great counter to MM in the early game since lings beat marauders and blings beat rines. Also you want to stay clumped up in a ball against lings so they can only attack the outside troupes while the ones on the inside get free shots, but you want to stay spread out against blings to reduce the splash damage. As the game progresses though when the army sizes grow larger and upgrades come into play ling/bling becomes much less effective vs MM. The bio ball will get too large for the lings to surround effectively unless they setup a flank ahead of time, and with concussive shells and stim pack researched the bio ball will be able to kite banelings all day long. And since I’m already going with a bio build medivacs are an obvious addition during the mid game, and with reactored starports up transitioning into vikings is no problem. Thus we come full circle to when I was talking about viking vs muta. Another benefit is that +1 armor also helps medivacs, and marines are already cost effective against mutas so when combined with vikings and well placed MT’s, muta harass is essentially null and void.
I’m also working on incorporating a few ghosts in TvZ. With ling/bling/muta becoming less effective against MMM/viking around later in the mid game an obvious transition is infestors, but emp from a ghost can handle that. Also remember how I talked about vikings forcing a ultralisk late game transition on the Z? Well upgraded bio armies do much better than mech against ultras since they can get kited (if they’re off creep) and the snipe from ghosts can help in bringing them down faster if you no longer need them to emp infestors. One huge advantage to a bio army is their ability to attack multiple locations at once. For instance a drop at the main, a nuke at an expansion, and pushing with your main army to the natural. So as you can see everything I’ve said so far has a nice flow and a natural transition. Of course for the most part this is all theory since my mechanics are only average so I can’t pull it off consistently. Just sparking some discussion.
/end rant
i don’t play T or Z much, but I read on Team Liquid that the reason bio fails as TvZ is because Infestors can root you with fungal growth, and then the baneling/zerglings finish you off
i haven’t played as many games as you have, so is it just 2 gate rush bs? 1st gate at 10, and save chrono for zealots?
I know, I read TL quite a lot, but if you haven’t noticed a lot of pro players are switching away from pure mech to bio or at least biomech. This is because Z players are understanding how to deal with mech by gaining map control with ling/muta. Now when most players read that they immediately think it’s a stupid idea since supposedly hellions counter lings while thors counter mutas, but it’s much less of a direct unit counter and more of how you micro them.
Like I said before ling/bling becomes less effective going into the mid game and the only way to make them useful again is with an infestors fungal growth. That’s why I suggested using ghosts and their emp, now it’s just a micro battle to who can get off their spell first. This is no different than TvP when it’s ghost vs HTs.
EDIT:
What’s with everyone complaining about having to use T2 units to counter T1 units? Did no one play BW? In TvP, T had to use vulture/siege tank to take on P using zealot/dragoon. In other words T2/2.5 units against T1/1.5 units. This isn’t anything new.
Mutas eat vikings for free. They’re way more expensive, slower, and can’t keep up with muta harasss. If you mass vikings, zerg will just out macro you while harassing and it will be gg. I had someone do this to me yesterday and I would go into his base, kill a few vikings, come back home and use queen transmute, then go back in and pick off what I can. I’m not really sure what T can do against Z now as I’ve actually started struggling in TvZ. I’ve found that raven + marines + tank and good positioning is the way to go in TvZ.
I read that Terran turrets have ridiculously high dps and HP, and you can just plop a few down and you are automatically immune to harass.
but that’s just the QQ ZvT threads I read on TL, I really wish it’d show the player rankings making such comments, because its hard to know who to listen to.
Who said anything about straight up massing vikings? I’m advocating just getting a few in response to a spire along with marine support from your main MMM army. I’ve already tested and in small numbers vikings win. If a group of mutas try to pop into a base and get some scv/supply depot kills then the vikings get some free shots. If the mutas try to straight up engage then back away then then the vikings get about 2 free shots since they have a range of 9 compared to the mutas range of 3, and mutas have a slow acceleration but fast top speed so it’s hard for them to just straight up retreat after engaging. Also if you’re using your queens energy for transfusions then that’s energy not going to larva injections, so unless this is mid/late game then you won’t be having the energy to throw around like that. And you do know that T can repair vikings as well right? Also vikings aren’t more expensive then mutas, 150/75 vs 100/100 it depends on how much weigh gas over minerals, and T can reach vikings before Z can reach mutas. Also I already stated that +1 armor can help vikings win even in large confrontations because of how much the bounce effect from mutas are reduced. Did you read my whole post?
That’s just the typical ZvT is imba crowd whining again. Z players really need to start playing more and crying less.
The main problem I see for using Vikings to counter Mutas is the sheer amount of them you’d need. If you tried to keep up and use them as a counter then you’d be over investing in an air force that can’t effectively attack ground where as the muta will prove to be the better unit all around. As a Z player I’ve seen Terran try to counter my muta harass with viks but stimmed marines and missile turrets are what really scare me. A few really won’t cut it since if a z player is going to commit to spire they’re going to need to make a lot of mutas to make the 200/200 the building cost get its money back. In fact now that I think about it, I don’t know if I’ve ever lost a battle of mutas vs. viks unless my numbers were way lower in which my speedlings were generally able to rape the entirety of his ground forces. Also when you tested them did you have the mutas focus fire?
Out of curiosity, have you tried much ZvT from the Zerg pov? It’s pretty scary.
Would anyone like to play me or my friend? Both diamond… I play random he plays zerg… we are looking for good people to practice against in customs etc… him especially has trouble finding a regular person to play against thats good enough to improve his game…
Anyone please?