Star Wars

I think the recurring argument trying to uplift TLJ by comparing story plots and probe for issues in a culturally disparate 40 year old movie trilogy that had to simultaneously tell an engaging story and world build from scratch is incredibly fallacious and misguided.

The current trilogy had an innumerable amount of cohesive plot points that it could’ve expanded upon base on decades of world building by the passionate contributors to the canon over the years. Instead they went the safe and rehashed route only with no real soul behind it- for marketing purposes, and added shoehorned politicized agendas that served no purpose to the story. Even with what I believe to be the genuine efforts of the actors (Daisy Ridley improved her acting noticeably), TLJ just felt like a corporate shell of a film.

**Merry Porgmas Y’all!
**

And there’s another difference between those of us that don’t like this movie. What you find interesting I find as just bad writing and bad characterization of our heroes that have been established in other movies and media. The writing team, because they can’t be creative to make the characters important in their own actions and natural progression, just do shit.

Luke had 3 films to progress into becoming a Jedi. Brief training with Master Obi-Wan, trained with Master Yoda, got humiliated by Vader, and then became a Jedi

Rey? Bah, she just does shit and she’s super powerful. Why? Because. Just because.oh and Luke is scared of her super Jedi powers because the writers just said so. Let’s just take shortcuts. Whatever

Cmon

Develop what? Rey didnt need to learn shit because shes a Mary Sue who gets everythign handed to her for nothing because “reasons”. Kylo is a fucking weak ass piece of shit whos going to lose because hes both evil and because he already lost to Rey in the first movie anyway so theres nothing to really worry about. So tell me again what there is to look forward to other than (maybe) seeing the Knights of Ren lose to a Mary Sue who will obviously be more powerful now because, again, “reasons”?

I like Porgs

Just saw the movie…this is why I’m sick of the Corp Entity which is now Disney. Wow man. I blame Lucas too, you should’ve never sold it. Storyline was all over the place, character development or lack there of, and Luke’s character…seriously?

I really need a day or two to recollect myself, but wow. I guess it’s making multi-millions so it’ll be a hit. However not surprised by the general public ratings of this movie.

I think that the most entertaining thing about TLJ is how people who defend it try to justify the fact that the movie is simply not good.
There are plenty of valid criticism towards the movie on this thread, is fine to like the movie, but lets not pretend that it was poorly handled in many aspects.

Hey, at least it’s not because of her extremely high midichlorIan count.

And what were you guys really wanting for the mystery behind her parents? Did you want it to be revealed that Luke fucked Leia and that’s why they dumped Rey in the desert and Luke went into exile, because they fucked up?

Or maybe Obi Wan in a moment of loneliness decided to take trip to the Cantina in Mos Eisley and give some whore a bad case of the hermit crabs, and she turns out to be Rey’s slutty grandma. Hey, that could actually fit in with the story at this point if you think about it.

Look at this picture

These heroes were born and raised under imperial rule.

Chewie experienced the Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War

Their lives crossed paths and together defeated, played major roles in the defeat of Palpatines Empire.

Then 30 years later, some clueless writers said to hell with them. We have another empire vs rebels and all these guys are gone now, forced out, everyone cheer for a rebellion led by the exciting Rey, Finn, and Rose. these lame fucks

I think most people that like it have no problem admitting the movie’s flaws. But God do people who hate the movie exaggerate the shit out of them. Even things that aren’t flaws but subjective creative decisions that someone may or may not like.

This was always the plan even back in 76 when Lucus was still creating star wars. The plan for a sequel trilogy was always for Mark Hamil to return many years later to “pass excalibur on to the next generation”. This has been known forever.

Referencing the bad prequels does not make the modern trilogy any better

For me, there doesn’t need to be a legendary bloodline. How about Rey should not be able to beat Luke Skywalker after discovering the Jedi exist and force powers after like… A freaking day and no training. Period

Dunno about some of that stuff being subjective.
To me it seems that they don’t reeally know what to do or where to go, the movie felt aimless and other stuff felt forced.
The movie overall feels like a wasted oportunity, they had plenty of places to go with the plot, but at the end they just said fuck it.

It’s totally subjective when everyone and their grandmother is talking about “how it should’ve been” or how they would have wrote it. The truth is you don’t know where things are going in the third movie. Everyone thought they had this movie figured out and that turned out to not be the case. You literally see one group of people saying they hated TLJ because it was nothing like the OT and then you have another group of people saying they hate it because it was too much of a rehash of the OT. If that’s not subjective then Idk what is.

thats not the problem! That was NEVER the problem. The problem is how Rian Johnson goes out of his way to figuratively (and damn near literally) SHIT ON EVERYTHING that made the original trilogy and its characters great simply because “I dont like this trilogy and want to work on my own.”

Now Han was going to die no matter what because Harrison Ford wants nothing to do with Star Wars and during the first few days of filming he broke his arm on the set so however that was going to be done, it was going to happen regardless. AT LEAST JJ Abrams made sure he went out on a more powerful note.

Luke went through an entire trilogy to build up his character as a hero , a force user, and redeemer of the second most dangerous man in the galaxy.

Spoiler

Well he hates the force now and was contemplating murdering his best friend and sister’s son because he thinks hes evil now. Also he likes to drink milk from alien tits. And then he died using force projection because…hes old and they didnt want him to be the least bit heroic?

Leia was a galactic princess and decorated rebel leader who tragically passed away after principle filming was completed.

Spoiler

Now shes a Superman meme.

I just dont get it. If you dont like the original series, then why are you writing for it? Like everything for Rian was a joke or a way to make fun of the people who enjoyed the film, the very same people who pay for their children to go see it. Why do you not want those people not to go see your film? Hell, why not get the people who did the TV shows to write for the trilogy since at least they TRY to make those films entertaining without breaking or shitting on the characters people like. I just dont see the purpose of this new trilogy other than to alienate and insult the very audience it was supposed to bring back.

I don’t feel that way about Rian Johnson. You assume that he had some kind of ill intent when directing the film and that simply was not the case at all. Those were his creative decisions and if you and others feel offended by those things as fans then that’s fine. But I and other people also as fans do not feel that way. To be honest I enjoyed the film so much that I was in utter shock when I came home opening night to see so many people online shitting all over it almost reacting to it to the effect of it being like they had to watch their mother get raped or something. There are people that hate it. And there are people who cheered and applauded at the end of the film and then left the theater with excitement for ep.9. I just guess both those groups will never see eye to eye.

There is nothing subjective about poor writting.

There is actually. That shouldn’t even be up for debate. One person can view the writing as bad. Another person can view it as not bad. Thus it’s subjective. Which is totally what’s going on with people’s reactions to the film.

The story writing for TLJ was bad, sure some people may like it (which still puzzles me), but overall it was terrible, in fact complete garbage. [details=Spoiler]The character development was lacking…

Snoke went from this complete Badass, with a huge potential story and momentum build up to only getting jobbed far worse than what happened to Necalli in the SF:V storyline. What a way to kill the biggest villain potential of the Post-Darth Sidious Era.

General Ackbar who was a side character favorite, was demoted to a death which literally had NO Emotion behind it. Guy was a central part of the destruction of the Empire with Lando, and he conveniently gets blown out into space with only a line of “Gen. Ackbar is gone.” Yeah, you’re “awesome” Disney.

Disney literally taking all the efforts, love of what happened in Ep. 4, 5, & 6 rolling it up into a ball and throwing it into the trash bin.

Apparently the “Rebel” forces didn’t change anything after ROTJ, in fact their situation is FAR Worse than where they were at during Episode 4 A New Hope. This is all barring that the entire Galaxy had returned back into the Republic for the past 30+ years, however hey, let’s not listen to logic here.

Rey literally being the most OP “Jedi” ever considering she has had practically no training, but is magically able to overcome once again Kylo and Luke…I mean Luke Skywalker. Let that sink in. You know, she beat Luke Skywalker? The man who trained Under Obiwan Kenobi, And Yoda. She defeated Luke Skywalker, the man who defeated Darth Vader in combat in probably his first loss since arguably when Kenobi defeated him (I’m using only movie references), but instead of killing his own father, he retained being a Jedi, which allowed Vader to become Anakin Skywalker once again to overthrow the Emperor.

This girl…who if you seriously count the days, is probably what? A weeks worth of or maybe a little bit more of thinking the Jedi were a myth to figuring out they were real, and with NO REAL LEGITIMATE TRAINING, she defeats a Jedi Master in Luke Skywalker whose been training for 30+ years?!

GTFO Disney!

It seems the writers of the new Star Wars movie must’ve been watching John Cena during the mid-2000s in the WWE when he was Super Cena and couldn’t lose a match and felt that Rey had to be an equal equivalent to this. Not only that, but she also fought better than Kylo Ren up against Snokes Elite Guards…

Speaking of Super…Leia going Superman and surviving the explosion and space!!! How in the world?! Leia had absolutely No Jedi training (nothing confirmed!) that we know of, and she’s doing a feat that even individuals to the likes of Yoda, prime Mace, prime Obiwan etc, etc have never been shown doing. She somehow is still alive, and brings herself back to the ship.

Not to mention opening the door to get to her would’ve decompressed the room, sucking everyone out into space…heck space vaccum and logic no longer applies with Star Wars anymore (just think of the bombing sequence at the beginning with the Asian girl who could still breath even the the bombing doors were open, all the while the bombs “dropped” like as though their was gravity).

Finn and Rose going to the “Casino” place to show some equality nonsense and then 'freeing animals" for some activist crap, with one of the worst lines ever when taking the saddle off the animal “Now it’s worth it.”

Yes, so worth it that you forgot the ENTIRE reason why you were there in the first place? Weren’t you supposed to look for someone, because you know…the Rebels are on the verge of getting completely wiped out but hey…Freeing Animals that would eventually get caught probably within the next 2 hours made that trip completely worth the time and value.

That entire event felt completely pointless with promotions of some sort of vegan bs propaganda and that all rich people are somehow corrupted. Not to mention Rose admitting she “loved” Finn was the biggest WTF, cringe worthy moment in the movie. It seems Hollywood still doesn’t want an Interracial relationship of white woman + (insert another race) so they’re going to throw this fat asian chick to Finn…gtfo.

Laura Derns character (forgot her name in the movie) decides to not tell Po what she has planned, and because of that, he decides to a bogus and ridiculous plan to a Finn whom he’s known but to an unknown chick who just spends her days looking at “pipes.” but hey, whatever. People bash Po for doing absurd things, however when your Commander in charge doesn’t give you one Damn Good reasoning to her plan, and you feel that all she’s doing is prolonging the inevitable destruction of everyone, you’re going to do drastic things.

Their would have been NO Mutiny, had you just told Po and others your damn plan. Would’ve save A LOT of lives, not to mention you didn’t have “ANY” Robots who could pilot the other ships to destruction which could’ve limited peoples lives who stayed on those cargo ships to simply die?

Speaking of the Rebels…they transmit a call for help, but apparently, 30 years of peace in a world where the remembrance of the Evil Empire would’ve still been very BURNED into their Memories somehow can’t find “anyone” to come and help them.

That’s like 30 years after World War II, and remnants of the Nazi regime come back, and NOBODY on our Planet is willing to come and help defeat them…Okay…once again, logic doesn’t apply. We’re supposed to just “agree” with this bs.

Screw the Death Star…Light Speed Ramming is the New OP Attack in the SW universe now. Not doing this with the other cargo ships, but waiting until half of the Rebels were wiped out before conceiving of doing that.

The First Order can build a Super Planet Destroyer but don’t have the “means” to take out shields from a significantly smaller vessel because they’re “outside of their range” garbage, nor failed to remember that hey small fighters which would’ve bombarded and severely weakened the “Rebels.”

Seriously, where did the First Order get the funding to “secretly” create so many gigantic, crazy and absurd things without the 30 year returned Republic not knowing a single thing about it? As I said, logic doesn’t convey anything in this movie.

Kylo getting jobbed so many times has taken away his thunder, no longer making him a credible threat. That’s like having M. Bison showing up in the Street Fighter Storyline and having him get OCVED by Dan.

Why was Vader a Badass compared to Kylo? Because he didn’t LOSE a fight until Return of the Jedi, against a realistically more seasoned Luke Skywalker who was not only physically but now mentally the most ready he could be at the time to challenge Vader. All the while Vader was choking, putting fear and wrecking people in the first two movies literally for free, while wielding one handed with his light saber to stomp Luke in Empire.

Making Kylo turn and uniting with Rey was BADASS…then having him doing a 180 turn instantly was the biggest erection to soft that I saw within the movie.

The pushing of Feminism could not be more apparent. All the women were in positions of power and redeemers while the men were either scum, morons and lead astray.

Luke Skywalkers character in TLJ…wtf. You’re telling me you completely overcame the Badass of your father, overcame your fears, and was always the most positive driven individual of the original SW movie only to completely fall away into despair and hopelessness in a situation that was nowhere near as dire as that of your father?

This was one of the most disrespectful ways of treating one of the most Iconic and beloved Movie Heroes of all time. Luke had overcome the greatest trial of them all which was his own father along with the Emperor, and because of that ascended to knew heights, wisdom and patience, and you threw his character and all that he continued to stand for under the bus. This is NOT how Luke would’ve acted. In TFA, you see Luke seeing his Lightsaber and having extreme emotions with red eyes and almost tears.

Then you get to The Last Jedi and he chucks his family lightsaber away…??? What?!

He also builds a secretive map in TFA with the build up of “If you need, you can still find me.” but in TLJ, he’s like “I didn’t want to be found.” “I simply came here to die.” Not only that, but he’s 1000% out of character, wanting to kill Kylo just simply because he “saw” something in the future? Luke should’ve LEARNED this lesson already, when he prematurely went to try and “save” Han, Leia and Chewy in Empire Strikes Back in which he did basically nothing, fell into a trap and lost his right hand for it.

Absolute Trash, since Luke was Never Ever someone who would wield his light saber so indiscriminately, even in Empires when the Wampa basically smashed him and was going to basically eat him, and he Still didn’t kill the thing, and this is Luke who isn’t Pre-Yoda trained mind you.

However, hey, Luke is shown milking a giant sea cow creature, and drinking from it’s nasty titties right? Then you have Luke Skywalker dying in the most uneventful and unemotional way…as a bum who was supposedly “too weak” (even though he was the key reason for the downfall of the Emperor and the redemption of Vader!) to continue onward.

I usually try not to cuss but…Disney, you’re an absolute piece of shit.

No wonder Hamill stated he did not like the Luke in TLJ and stated it was a far too different from the Luke whom had overcome the Dark Side, brought his father back into redemption and became the man he was in ROTJ.

This Star Wars movie was an absolute travesty, and a complete disrespectful installment of what had been so hard to build up in Episodes 4, 5, and 6 to be utterly all destroyed within this single movie. It was such a horrible experience, that I would never watch this Star Wars movie again, and as crazy as it sounds, it’s actually made me appreciate the Prequels A LOT More.

Sure Lucas during the Prequels may have made too much CGI bs, made scenes, parts cringe worthy, with some terrible, terrible acting. BUT, at least the story still made sense, it felt like a Star Wars movie and the Light Saber fights were spectacular with proper reasons to who would win and lose!

In The Last Jedi, we had so many build ups from TFA that lead to absolutely Nothing, Nothing! All the while they enforced so much of the Nihilism trash into this movie, when things involving the Jedi and all things, even the Dark Side are so Spiritually Driven!

As I said, Disney must’ve paid off the Big Critics to put up that fake 93% rating, seriously…TLJ has a higher rating than a Legendary Movie like LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring, let that sink in folks.

I’m done with you Disney on Star Wars. Unless you make is so that Luke Skywalker can come back and cheat death, and do an entire plot change so amazing and dramatic for Episode 9, I won’t support this anymore, you destroyed what George Lucas had built in lore for decades upon decades, with the greatest of love.

Then you threw it all into the wayside simply because you wanted to make your “own” Star Wars to derive from his own works.

You castrated Lucas approach of the Force (which was derived from multiple religions and myths), you removed the spirituality from it, you destroyed beloved characters without any good reason all so you could bring in your own new characters to try and hopefully make them “better.”

The Nihilism shit is stupid, Stupid! In Star Wars movie where Spirituality is so rooted upon the good and the bad. One of the biggest reasons why The Empire Strikes Back is so Amazing is that when you look back and watch the Making of Empire, you’ll hear the Director Irvin Kershner state that in Empire “I had to reach deeper into Luke, I had to reach into his Soul.” Notice how he stated Soul to Luke Skywalker, not promoting Nihilism but Soul, meaning something that is beyond what we as human beings can physically see.

By emphasizing this, is WHY we had such a powerful and beautiful movie in Empire Strikes back, and not just with Luke Skywalker, but the rest of the cast. By promoting “Nothingness” you’ve basically devoided the very human trait in these characters because you claim it’ll ultimately lead to Nothing.

I once loved your animated movies from the Renaissance Era of the late 80s going into the 90s Disney, because why? They had Soul into it, and you knew how to make Animated Features, not to mention it didn’t feel like it was all about making money, but more about just simply trying to make a masterpiece regardless of the outcome.

That however is the Exact opposite of how Star Wars The Last Jedi was treated.

You’re the Evil Empire now Disney, because just like Darth Sidious during Order 66, you’re destroying all of the old and beautiful to try and remove it’s relevance from existence while forcing what you believe is the better symbolism by which it stands for.

So Go Fuck Yourself Disney, I hope your Empire Falls.

Anyone who claims this movie was “good”, all I can say is this…

Fallen to the Darkside you have.

[/details]

There’s so much more to write, but it’s late, erm, early morning and I’m tired.

Yep, I’m on the ship of the story was pretty crap train.

i think you guys are being too hard on the film. i think everyone is. its not perfect, it has flaws, but i felt pretty engaged and entertained. but its different.
from the originals. not so much prequels. or people keep comparing it to the originals. not the prequels.

im just glad its not ESB which i was expecting them to do, and it wasnt. im okay with the movie.

off topic
i saw Interstellar today.
dope af.