if i dont, i got to figure something out. its well known that Evo is a console tournament now. you can easily get ST/SF collection on PS1 on ebay. if youre a serious player and want to win, its up to you to do the research ahead of time right?
maybe it shouldnt be that way, but when its announced and finalized, thats what you got to deal with. i dont necessarily defend that it should be on PS1, i’m just saying that if you know about it ahead of time, its up to you to figure out whats different and not be pissed on the day of in the bracket stages.
as for the whole which winner and which loser can talk, i have no opinion or idea on that. not really interested to be honest.
i always thought old school mainly referred to those who played and dominated in the tournament scene before the pre-evo era when the alphas were played extensively and such shrug
I think CigarBob should build the cabs and sell them at EVO right after the tournament. OR, have one of the ST tournaments be like $20.00+ to enter and the winner gets the cab to keep and the money goes to CigarBob to pay for his hard work.
How in the world do you mention TTT and ST in the same breathe?
You of all people, old school no less would like to kill a game because others are bickering on what version would be appropriate? How about working with others that care about ST to find a better solution?
ST is old but it’s the closest thing we have left to real SF. Kill your roots and you’ll quickly lose your way.
If I EVER find myself with the opportunity to run some sort of tournament it would be old school to the bone.
If the only ‘real’ version of ST is the one that noone is going to be playing between now and next evo, why try to keep it? If you think more people are actually playing ST let me know, but my assumption is that any growth in ST is from picking up AE players and throwing them into ST tournaments.
If you took all the people who play specifically ST and threw them on a cigarbob cab unofficially (which is what i hear happened anyway), i think they would be happier, and i think if you let AE players play the game they actually own and practice on, they would be happier too. Maybe we should explore having two or three setups and running A3/ST/XSF as ‘classic’ tournaments, not really unofficial, but not official in the sense that it’ll have pools (or whatever replaces pools) or big screen finals or anything, just run brackets on the side all weekend when main games aren’t running.
And to whoever asked, we seem to agree that AE isn’t ST at all. The biggest gripe from ‘ST’ players is that it’s not a ‘good’ game, but 300+ ppl entered 3s to watch chun/chun, how much worse can AE be?
P.S. I like chun/chun personally, just trying to make a point.
Why not try to learn an entirely different game and replace it with AE? At least include it in the votable games department next time. Just ban a few characters and it’s good to go. I don’t think it would hurt too much to experiment new things in the future, since PS1 ST is already experimental.
Daigo vs. Schaeffer match vids (if anyone remembers it) sparked this idea.
Are U fuckin insane!!! Dump ST?! The only reason I was gonna attend EVO next year was for ST! I finally commit to goin to EVO for once and Bam!! Mr. Wizhead wants to shut it down. :sad: :xeye: MrWiz, Rescind that comment I will make a nice donation to Shoryuken with PayPal immediately…
when ur right ur right! if u dont we’ll have more drama & cap
com made this wonderful game called AE for us to play.
just make AE on the evo 06 roster & force every1(like u guys did at evo05 w/ST) to pick this up! :party:
best to tell ppl this year so ppl can prepare for the changes!
Just because there is controversy with a game, it does not mean that one should just eliminate it. I personally feel that some of the BEST matches in EVO and even before EVO came from ST. I, like others, go to EVO just for ST. To me, ST IS Street Fighter which IS the essence of this website ("Shoryuken" right?). Old skool or not, there are new players to ST whether it is from AE or not. This is like a college saying "because there was a controversy surrounding our basketball tournament, we are no longer having a basketball team. Don't worry, there's still football and baseball." Does this make sense?
ST is also one of the few games that can be run QUICKLY in tournaments. 99sec at most per round and most are over in half that. No "one match and it's over sessions" here!
Emulation is possible, arcade setups are possible, Superguns are possible, and if it is to remain console, PLEASE stick to ONE STANDARD. If it is to be played on Dreamcast (it has problems but it's my personal console fav), fine. PS1, fine. Sega Saturn, fine. My main point is to keep consistent. The great thing about arcaade is that there was that consistency. Don't change it from year to year. Don't alienate the folks that have supported the community even before alt.games.sf2. Don't eliminate ST!
Lastly, I'll even support the Tekkies. Same goes for them but I am not as intimately involved with them as I am with SF.
To your analogy, it would be like taking the football team and putting them in a rugby tournament because your favorite players all think rugby is a better game and the ball kind of looks the same.
My suggestion does not actually remove ST from EVO at all, and it does not prevent anyone from playing ST that really plays ST. ST is just not a current game, and AE isn’t ST, when SF games aren’t current and played anymore we retire them, A3, HF, XSF, all good games to some people, but all retired.
As evo grows i imagine there will be room for all these games on the big screen and such. Just like normally there is halo 1 at halo 2 tournaments (I don’t believe there was in vegas because we were together), there can be room for classic sf games at evo, if evo grows to a size that will accomodate it. Obviously if we have to share a room like we did this year the classic tournaments will suffer first, but i hope that will not happen again.
This is a bonus, but not in itself a reason to include it.
Hi, in case you missed Evo2k5, there WAS NO ST, there was a game that was not ST, and it was not AE, but it was really close so we threw all the AE players and the ST players into a game that neither of them played, or will ever play again. BTW, all those console ports you said ‘fine’ too, aren’t really ST either =P.
I don’t even get why there is a discussion, all the ST players were in the corner playing on the cab anyway, almost all the ST players loved that idea. On the other hand, there’s no reason to force this solution on the 99% of evo that didn’t play on the cab AT ALL, and were fine with the console games and sticks there.
On a forum a few people can make some noise, but in reality, I believe we are talking about 32-64 people that care about original ST, not 2-300, and we have no means to get ST to that number, so there is no reason to continue talking about it as a standard game for console tournaments.
I hope then once we accept this, we can then delegate these side games to people that care about preserving their original form and accomodating the players that still care, and evo can concern itself with how to handle the increasing turnout for the main games, sponsorship, marketing, etc…
Actually my comments for the above was in response to Wizard's comment to eliminate ST. I have no probs with alternative suggestions keeping ST.
I just made this point as many out there were complaining about limited matches. I agree. This in of itself is not a reason to keep ST in a tournament.
I agree here too. I was at EVO this year and there was something that was CALLED ST, but was really not ST (ie. Little Timmy was waiting to meet Santa at Christmas but he was disappointed to find a drunk guy with a fake beard in the mall). Sad. The versions I did say fine to was in terms of consistency and standardization, not that there can be a true replacement to the arcade board.
According to the pools for ST this year, there were 5 people per pool and about 30-31 pools. That makes 150-155 people who paid to play. I don't think that's too shabby. Side tournaments are fine but I still think there is enough support to keep in in front of the eyes of the public and not on the bottom shelf.
I am totally for supporting EVO in its projects but I do not support killing the roots the tree to save the branches. Video games, unlike professional sports, come and go and I recognize that it means "adapt or die." However, I still do believe that ST will still get numbers and new people who play and the inevitible decline will also be reflected in the other fighters also. I can argue about the lack of players to embrace new fighters and how this would retard growth but this is neither the time nor the place. Again, I SUPPORT EVO, but I am also a guy that supports fighters the way they were meant to be played.
If EVO is to attain the more mainlline adoption that MLG has (though this is the first I've heard of them), CONSISTENCY and standardization are key. I am certain that every tournament they hold will use the same version (not PC Halo etc. & yes I know Halo 2 is not out for PC, just and example). With this consistency, there will come recognition.
Problem is not about taking out ST. Thank you Wizard for not giving a damn like always and making ANOTHER bad decision. He is just throwing this random thought out to get people talking about somethign different and to lazy himself to really dive into the scene and figure out what people want. Taking ST out after all these new skool kats are finally coming up and getting good is just wrong. Everyone knows Wizard is the official hater of the scene, and most of the bad decisions being made are from him. Ill give 3s 5on5 as an example. Instead of creating the 5on5 with the BEST players possible (like what tekken people did) , he sticks his big snout in and makes these lame ass rules not knowing a DAMN thing about the 3s scene. In turn we get a half ass team.
Problem with SRK right now is that there arent any people on the SRK team that actually KNOW the tournament scene.Not to get on them for that, but they simply just need to bring on some people with a little more knowledge on the scene and players. We need to get some people on the staff that actually regularly participate in the tournament scene that can make wise decisions on whats goin on and what the players actually want. Also that can help with making good brackets.
Ignoring Wizards random post to start beef, how bout we go back to what is important at hand, and figure out a good way to run ST. If Cigarbob agrees to make more cabinets, then problem solved. If not, I say we just go back to the DC version.
Sorry wiz, but you need someone there to help make better decisions on events like 5on5 and also to help make proper brackets. Honestly I agree with Buktooth, evetything should be handled online (payment what not) Just so you can actually take time to make a decent bracket and not get so many flukes and black brackets of death.
You have a strange idea of bottom shelf, a DC version people don’t like (and aren’t really going to play) is not bottom shelf, a PS1 version that is definately not accurate (and even less people play) isn’t bottom shelf.
But true arcade ST on arcade controls is bottom shelf ONLY BECAUSE we’re not forcing it on the 90% of players that don’t have arcades or arcade ST. That is the only real difference I see.
Excatly, which is why the current console version of ST is “none of the above”, why the only real solutions are AE or Nothing long term.
Noone said anything about taking out ST really, wiz said to retire it, and I added onto it by saying that ‘retiring’ a game should just mean that the players can run it the way you want, without worrying about all the things the main games have to.
Who are the ‘new players’ getting good at ST, better yet, explain how someone would even get good? MAME? fly to your house?
On srk ‘the scene’ usually means how many named players you know, and how many vids you have out, so i am against this idea of ‘knowing the scene’. Since there are only a few tournaments that get all the best players, it’s pretty easy decision IMO just to use those. Not to mention it will hype up the other majors knowing that 4-8 get something more than the ‘I almost won money’ award.
I say we just expand what we did before. Top 8 for ECC/MWC/EVO2k5/TS5 qualify for the (up to) 32 man final, all spots are on the table. Do it for T5/3s/ST and make the first day “registration/team USA finals” for all 3. Now you have one more team USA than last year, all decided fairly. Don’t know what to do for the world team yet, but we can figure that out.
i highly doubt cigarbob will make more cabinets. i known that guy for a very long time. making his cabinet and watsons cabinet drained a lot of his energy and money for the last couple months. he would basically lock himself out from anything social for the most part for those couple months just to complete these tasks.
inly way i would see him making anymore is if he saw a huuuuge payoff in the end. and i dont see that happening.
but what i do see, is motivation for other players to take these ideas and make their own? ive seen so many people ask cigarbob how it was made and what not. if that happens and they can make it quality like cigarbob’s, we could be in business for next year, who knows.
if that happened that would be dope, then we can move back to arcade. but now a new problem lies. people that play other games will see this as a bias, and will ALSO demand their games be arcade also. everyone will cry bloody murder if st went arcade and everything stayed console. and most of these people will be ignorant to the fact that that cps2 boards are much much easier to obtain than cps3 and especially naomi boards… i can just see this complaint happening…
I think it’s important to distinguish the “we’s” used here.
We as in the people of evo, have no desire to ever see a arcade anything forced on us again.
We the fans of ST, would like to see it our game represented in its true original arcade form.
I’m saying we satisfy both crowds since we happen to be in the same place at the same time. Everyone seems to be against it and i can’t figure out why.
:sad: :xeye: MrWiz, Rescind that comment I will make a nice donation to Shoryuken with PayPal immediately…