hmm i always thought vega could just beat guile with his low strong poking and slide BS. It’s not like Guile can safely throw booms at Vega so Vega can just poke all day. Vega doesn’t even have to do wall dive. Guile needs a knockdown to get a sonic boom on screen and that isn’t easy because of Vega’s crazy pokes. Really rough match for Guile.
vega/guile
well guiles hop kick has lots of prorities!!! and can stop most ground moves… there are no absolutes…old guile which many people still use has his own advantages as well. But you can still psychic flash kick his pokes! then set up for seom traps. I still lean towards Vega!
Well… not a challenge really. ha-HAH! 
I know i’ll definitely get in on you though. hehe. But seriously, I have to make it count when I do.
This is a hard match. I knew this matchup back in '95 but forgot and am now learning it all over again.
sim gets ripped off on headbutts that hits honda head; hit anywhere else and you’re talking combo… ok link 
, maybe dizzy for honda. all the drills can stop the head butt ya gotta just practise hitting it clean. or, just jump up and let him go under you for the throw. you can slide it too, but that just looks cool. 
if you drill fatty and he blocks it get out of there. you don’t watn to be that close !
ok the buttsplash is a problem. just make sure you’re not blocking it. that leads to bad things - bad mj thriller things 
punish the unblocked splash with stuff that’ll (luv my contractions, eh) zone him ie st fwd/rh/rh.slide and best, throw. if he’s close and u suspect air attack do your blast hell it looks cool. u really can’t react to the butt splash with a drill well maybe rh but if you’re thinking about it your’e really better of teleporting at that point. the drills will stop fatty only on the way up and the top of the splash so…guess. 
u have to zone with the fbs and kicks and your anti-air to air moves.
zone until fatty has a super and then its like ryu has a super only hondas is worse. bait him out of it- itss worth just blocking. or drilling, if he’s down to nothing.just don’t expect drills to do much damage to fatty - i swear i’ve died so often thinking i had him with 1 drill only to eerily see that it just did a sliver of damage. :eek: i actually have thought about st. jabbing it too, but that would be just showing off 
it is daunting but u have to remember why shotos do so well vs honda: they can zone. if fatty can’t get in he’s not going to do any more damage so just keep at it and try land a super.
IT IS AN ANNOYING MATCH. HELL, I’M ANNOYED JUST TALKING AND LOSING TODAY OVER IT.
- vigorously shakes off bad memories, straps self back in chair, and sighs *
ok, so i’m particularly sympathetic today. good luck on this matchup.
though it the buttsplash that really ruins sim’s game vs honda in hf. n eedles to say, i think i’m speaking for all sim saying we’re happy it doesn’t travel as far in st.
hondas splash can be countered with the st. def. fwd. i’m thinking now stickmans’ headbutt/knee should do it too - at the right distance - but i wouldn’t depend on it.
more on Dhalsim vs Cammy
well, while you’ve been thinking, i’ve been playing the match, from sim’s side.
i’m not sure where you’re going with th eslide thing. kylie’s j strong beats the slides. if you do it early you’re either getting crossed up or out of range to short slide noogie. now i still like the idea - a perfectly timed fwd slide for da stick helps him position in several sf games. but that’s another story. i’ll try it.
whoops, i’m getting ahead of myself. sorry. a knockdown is trouble. its crossup/cr fwd or st fierce into hooligan time. if you cammy comp isn’t doing that, or even hooligan through your fb’s -you’re missing out. but its a good missing out
this i honestly don’t understand. i love my blast but cammy essentially has to be on top of me for me to try it. she is simply too small a sprite for it to be a good anti-air. try doing a rh blast and have cammy jump in with rh. i’d bet cammy could jump straight up and stiil punish him from the right spot. kylie doesn’t need a lot of reaction time on a whiffed jab blast if she’s just over a 1/4 screen away. a cr rh or drill is all she needs for punishment, maybe a knockdown. what speed are u playing on? 1? 0?
the noogie trap is a cannonspike bait, and if they’re not hitting u out of it, then…again i’m sorry you’re missing out. i can’t remember spiking out of the noog, but this isn’t that hard is it, lurking cammies?
ideally you’re comboed into the hooligan so then there is no countering it - just another chance at licking minogue the right way as i listed earlier. its hard to know exactly how to counter it since she has 3: one for head, torso and feet (?) and distance affects it too. it comes out damn fast as masaka posted. just try not to see it. i’d have to go though a trial and error counter j/s/f session to give u all the answers on that - and due the fact that i just don’t have access to these cammies (they’re rare!
) this project has not been started. y’know…priorities.
hope you check on this matchup and tell us what you can find. as u can see we need more research on this and we don’t get much funding here on srk, unlike national madden tournaments. :bluu:
then again what type of grants am i going to get under “other games”. the media i tell ya is going to ruin us. :lame:
but that’s another story.
back to da lab to test theories of daigo invincibility…
Bison vs. Geif.
Bison straight up jump RH works well.
Its totally stupid, and of course is beatable, but Geif has problems with the retardedness.
Thanks for the reply Dublo
I have to admit that no one in my sf circle is especially proficient with cammy so yeah, I’m probably missing out on a few things. We’ve been playing A3 recently (I won’t express my feelings on that game here heh) so I’ve yet to test out anything I posted earlier, but your counter arguments are pretty convincing. The question now is whether I’m going to keep that Cammy info to myself or divulge it to my buddies to make things a little more difficult. Decisions decisions
As for the Sf research grant, maybe if we got together to write up some kind of proposal I could submit it to someone at my school. I gotta say man if there was such a thing as Sf studies I’d have my Phd and be a tenured prof by now.
:lol:
…and thats one of my big problems.
Guile-Vega always gives me a lot of problems, mainly stemming from the aforementioned.
I think it was touched on a little earlier, but Guile-Sim never gives me problems. However i never really play anyone too proficient with Sim around here, so that may be why.
Finally, a class i’d attend, :lol:
Meh. Nothing we didn’t already know.
I felt the same way about this, but as soon as you deal with a half-decent Sim you’ll probably run into problems I’m wondering if there are any Guile players reading that can offer some advice. My secret weapon is spamming on stand f/b+ fwd to mess with positioning :lol:
I find jump straight up HP is very important in this match.
Avoid getting hit when you throw booms (by the slide and low punch).
Jump forward beats slide…
I’ve played quite a few matches with Guile against good Sims. Usually what I like to do is get the lead and then just turtle up big time. Like at the start of the fight (at the ROund 1 FIght range) if he tries a yoga fire and you see it coming you can flash kick over it and knock him down. Or play the position game and get into a range where you can hit his limbs with stand short (if you’re old Guile). As jms also mentioned the moving sobat kick with new guile is somewhat useful too. It’ll even sometimes hit dhalsim’s punches. The problem with new Guile is it’s much harder for him to jam on stand short to stuff dhali’s limbs. You can try doing stuff like doing a stand short xx sonic boom every time you think a punch is coming but it’s hard. If you get the lead then the simplest thing to do is to sit back and make Sim come to you. A lot of things Sim can try to close the gap risks him getting hit. If he tries chipping you with Yoga Fires then just match sonic booms or jump up and hit fierce if he tries to punch you as you land.
If it’s a stalemate or Guile’s down on health the fight gets much harder. You really have to approach slowly and watch for an opening like a careless yoga fire, predictable limb etc. What I try to do is get the dhalsim to use a drill to push me out or set up a tick. If I can get him to drill then depending on position i can either jab them out to regain some offense or i take the hit and go for the throw which, if it doesn’t knock down, still does a bit of damage and is better than nothing.
Guile has a hard time against Dhalsim because of Sim’s throw range. There’s not much Guile can do: can’t throw sonic booms, can’t really jump at Sim (Sim can jump back drill, or roundhouse slide once mind games are set off)
Well, East Coast Guiles have no shot.
guile sim
Well basically new guile reguardless of east or west coast has no shot vs Sim. BUT old guile does… based upon his standing short having crap loads of priorities on sims ground moves. but still you have to WORK to beat a good sim!
Honda vs. Dhalsim:
This is a difficult match for Dhalsim, but it’s still in Dhalsim’s favor. I firmly believe that a mediocre Honda player will beat a mediocre Dhalsim player reliably, but a fantastic Dhalsim will destroy a fantastic Honda even more reliably.
Dhalsim has several things going for him. One of the most important is his b + jab overhand chop. This move is fantastic anti-air, and snuffs EVERYTHING honda has to jump in with, and even beats the butt splash and the headbutt if timed right. Actually, this move is great close range anti-air in general, much better than his b + fierce or that silly, slow, upwards yoga flame. Pressure from the yoga fires and what few limbs you dare throw out will pretty much force him to try and advance on you; he can’t throw out random headbutts, as each and every headbutt can be b + jabbed into oblivion, and any time he presses the control stick forward is when Dhalsim flings a fireball, to keep him from advancing. Since he can’t realistically jump or walk forward, he has to rely on the butt splash to get in, and good spacing can render that next to impossible.
If Honda pulls out a knockdown, Dhalsim is in trouble. He can’t really deal with crossups, as we all know, and Honda can cross you over all day with butt splashes, or that jumping d + forward body splash. Change it up one day into an ochio/hundred hand slap, and odds are you have a dead Dhalsim on your hands. But that assumes that he manages to get in, and I don’t think he can if the Dhalsim player doesn’t screw up.
Bison owns Zangief. He has almost no good ways to deal with the standing roundhouse/forward. If he tries a lariat, he gets swept, and he’s out ranged. Don’t get me started on the number of ways to punish a whiffed banishing hand. Yeah, he can lariat the psycho crusher with pathetic ease, but Bison will never use it for exactly that reason. If he somehow gets you to block a body splash and tries to lay down pressure doing it over and over, Bison seems to be able to catch him by jumping back and pressing strong. Once again, it’s an issue of just not being able to get in.
Fei Long also beats Zangief, just because I don’t think Gief has any way to get out of the roundhouse arc kick, standing fierce xx roundhouse arc kick -> standing fierce xx roundhouse arc kick…trap. If anyone knows a way out of it with him, please correct me.
Honda destroys Cammy, Vega, Blanka, and Zangief, and I think gets the advantage in the matchup with Sagat, if not his original version. The cr. jab keeps them at perfect range, and the headbutt beats everything. The “advance while jabbing” strategy doesn’t work, thanks to the wonder of a hugely long range standing f + roundhouse that knocks down and hits immediately. He also has problems escaping that Fei Long trap, but I’m not so sure if he can’t or not, which is why I didn’t list him. Can he buttsplash out of it, or headbutt to safety? I’m just not sure. Even if he can get out of it, that arc kick is deadly, and forces people to take disgusting amounts of block damage as it quickly gets chained into a standing fierce xx fierce rush punch, fierce rush punch, jab rush punch. That seven hit combo is almost all block damage, and it’s easy to force many characters to block it. A lot.
Almost everyone owns Blanka. He has a decent matchup against Guile, and, uh…um. Another Blanka?
Dee Jay is a really good character. He’s solid in almost any matchup, and can actually go THROUGH fast sonic booms and yoga fires with his short jack knife. His crouching fierce has an enormous collision box, and his short jack knife is invicible first frame, giving him an advantage when it comes to anti-air over almost all of the rest of the cast but shotos and maybe fei-long. Plus, you can juggle with his jack knife, and if you manage to connect with his super while they’re on the ground, you can juggle into a forward jack knife after it for style and extra damage. His crossups are painfully easy to do, and scary. I’ve taken to using his crossup forward, standing strong, standing short, fierce max out recently, mainly 'cause I got really bored of the two crouching jabs, standing strong xx max out. His slide lets him move forward without losing his charge, and that’s just disgusting. No other charge character can do that. No other character has a forward kick that knocks you down, either. :evil:
Old Honda does 
Honda Sim
Actually not true Honda owns him. The standing jab thing is false and can be beaten in the air via jump in! 6wins out of 10 games!.. id be willing to put money on this match up! name the opponent! ill win! guaranteed! $50 best of 7 or best of 10… if its 5-5 i lose! Your choice , Cole choi, spence, wolffe, valle, shirts …it don’t matter!
I’ve probably played the best E.Hondas in the country, and either I have the edge or they go even with me.