So since this seems to be a popular topic in other character threads I thought I’d make one here. What do you, especially high level/experienced Oni players, want for him in ver 2013 (should it happen)?
Things I think he needs:
Safer MK/HK/EX slashes on block. Viper burn kicks are +2 on block… if we could at least get -2 on mixup slashes, that’d be awesome. (currently -4, -8, and -10 respectively). They already lose to any move unless they’re done meaty or on wake, so this wouldn’t cause any danger of “spamming” them.
maybe make LK Slash -1 or 0 on block. This would be AMAZING but maybe over-powered.
Improved hitbox/hurtbox data on several moves to make them less vulnerable to counter pokes (specifically cr.mk and f+hp, but many of his normals could use a bit of trimming on the hurtboxes)
A little more range on focus attack
Faster startup and better priority on Step Kick (f+mk)
Allow B+MP and F+HK to combo after an FADC’d Shoryuken on hit
Easier input for Ultra 2 – either make the existing input more lenient, or change the input to QCFx2 + KKK
Faster startup for F+HK
Faster recovery (landing) on Air Dashes
Better hitbox on Air Dash > Tatsu
EX Air Dash!?! (Maybe move down and land with a Stomp/Sekisei Jiraiken hitbox? I dunno)
Better hitbox on Air Ultra 1 (so it isn’t terrible) and a larger cancel-window for Air Ultra 1 after Air Dashes
Random idea-- make it a “beam” that is primarily used for safe chip damage
Things I think a lot of people will ask for, but that he probably doesn’t need (or shouldn’t have):
Shoryuken FADC’able on block – he really doesn’t need this, if they “fix” this, then they probably don’t know what’s wrong with him
TC2 hitting on crouchers – this would be AMAZING but it might be too powerful
Better fireballs – he shouldn’t have great fireballs. If they improve them, it should only be very slightly
improved Stomps (Sekisei Jiraiken) – they’re pretty much fine, they could be improved a little bit to be made safer on block, but I don’t think they need it. Only adjustment they might need is having a small hitbox behind them
Things I really hope that they LEAVE THE HELL ALONE:
EX Shoryuken chip damage / range – please, just don’t touch it. I’d rather have this than FADC’able shoryuken on block.
Interesting ideas. I’m trying to complie a list with buffs for every character, so your post is very helpfull.
Also, Metalman, I’m curious what do you think of Oni match ups. In tier list thread we tried to make a tier list, but Oni was one of the few chars that we didn’t have a mainer for, so it would be helpful if you share your knowledge with us.
I think a lot of the community Matchup chart info on him is close, the only standout “really bad” thing that I remember is Cammy and Ibuki being 6:4 in Oni’s favor, which I think is ridiculous. I remember the rest being very close / accurate, though it’s been a little while since I looked at it.
I’d be happy to take a closer look and contribute though, for sure-- to be honest, I only haven’t already because the thread seems a bit jumbled and over-active, so I don’t really know what’s going with it. If you could give me a little push in the right direction (thread location, posting etiquette, etc.), I’d be happy to stop in and talk with everyone about his matchups. I used to do that for the Backroom in Smash and managed several character panels/discussions, so it’s something I have a good deal of experience with.
Hey I don’t play Oni but I’m also trying to play a bit with his frame data with the PC version of AE 2012 (only reason why I bought it for $10…)
- HP Slash: -3 on block if it cross up. Can FADC (only able to FADC on front atm)
- EX slash: -1 if it cross up. Can FADC (only able to FADC on front atm)
or vice versa
The purpose of these changes would be for him to be able to pressure more his opponents. Since his zoning isn’t the best thing he has and his footsies are…ok (I guess ?) being able to stay around his opponent for a longer period of time would be a nice addon to Oni’s current tools.
Other things he could have would be:
- projectile invincibility on his MP and HP slashes comes earlier (keep the same amount of invincibility)
- EX Demon stomp: yellow EX Flash comes out a bit later
- Cr.HK: startup down from 9F to 7F
- Air U1 travels down faster. Change trajectory so that if both opponent are at fullscreen, the fireball hits the opponent up to legs/middle body (according to a character with a average body e.g ryu)
***Regarding his Air U1:
- Decrease charge time for fireballs
- fireballs goes fullscreen OR more range
- hitbox on vertical U1 more wide
- FADC on shoryuken
These are mine
probably a smaller jump arc so he can actually take advantage of jumping over projectiles
also faster qcf fireball recovery and/or qcf fireball that reaches fullscreen
I think that Oni is very volatile for changes. I don’t really main Oni but I play around with him alot. I would love if he could alter after inputting ex slash which side he lands. Like hold forward to land crossup or hold back to land front. I’d like it too if hitting F.HP would have more hitstun and blockstun, so I could use F.HP fadc as “get in” move and on hit combo.
i would like if they could buff his air tatsu to hit crouchers and to add ken style hit stun. if he could fadc his dp on block he might actually be tourney viable.
Do you really think that SRK being FADC’able on block is that big of a deal? I think it only matters a lot versus a few characters (Cammy and Rufus come to mind), but against most, I really don’t think it’s a major issue.
Also, I’m worried that they would nurf his DP (especially the EX Version on chip) if they let him FADC it on block, and I’d rather have the DP the way that it is, personally.
They would definitely have to nerf all the op aspects of his dp (invulnerability,startup,hitbox,etc) if he could fadc it on block, but think about what that would do for his mixup game. Now all of the sudden after a lk.slash on block your opponent can’t crouch tech when you have two bars. It would be similar to how fei long after a chicken wing has really scary options. I’d like it but I don’t see that happening considering all the balance changes they would have to do to make it fair.
Wouldn’t you rather they fixed the crouch tech spam issue by making LK slash 0 on-block instead? I really think fixing the LK slash frame data is a better solution for that issue, since his good HP/EX DP is a huge and defining factor of his gameplay-- one that I find more valuable than having the ability to cancel it.
Even with your example of Fei Long’s Chicken Wing, I don’t think the FADC is the primary reason it’s scary. HK and EX Chicken Wing are 0 on block, which means blocking them is an immediate guessing game. I don’t understand why Oni shouldn’t have that same advantage (or at least be -1).
LK slash already leads to a guessing game, it isn’t like DP doesn’t exist as an option. You have to be willing to do it occasionally. Making it FADCable would be a lazy, boring fix and remove a part of his uniqueness, though it would undoubtedly make him much much stronger, in far more than a few matchups.
0 LK slash would be pretty silly. -1 would be enough to improve Stomp followup dramatically. Either way I don’t think this is a big area of concern.
My most wanted improvements would be on his midrange normals. Something that covers the lower half of his body that doesn’t have massive startup. Either extend standing MK or HK first hit hitboxes down a little, faster startup/longer reach c.mk, faster startup sweep or something along those lines.
Slightly faster MK slash might be nice for projectiles.
EX Airdash that you can do normals out of would be fun I suppose, but you can get a lot done with Airdash EX Tatsu as it is, just less damage reward.
QCFx2 Ultra 2 wouldn’t hurt either I suppose. I don’t see much point in its current motion.
hum…wouldn’t it be good if Oni could FADC from HK and EX slash when it hits from the back ?
what if ex airdash moves oni straight downwards with no recovery frames?
Just thinking about this for HK slash if they are not going to make it less risky to throw out, they could make it more rewarding by putting them into a huge amount of hitstun instead of knocking them down. The frame advantage on a successful hit would be about +7 allowing us to get a full combo afterwards but it will still carry the same amount of risk if they block it.
it’s true that since oni is the type to maintain pressure on the opponent (from my point of view) and HK slash makes the opponent fly away…but I don’t know if it would be a bit too much…
While we’re thinking about our wishlist, Teleport and Downwards airdash would be AMAZING. The animations already exist, for anyone who hasn’t seen Error 1’s video, it’s below at the end of the video.
I should do a video about this if I ever get something to record with. I bought AE PC only to try mods and I must say Oni is quite fun that way
A little break down on my modded Oni:
List of changes for Oni AE2012.2
Increase walking speed backward
Focus Attack: Increase range of Focus Attack. Oni moves a little bit
forward during level 2 frames
- Backdash: Less recovery (deleted some frame at the end of the backdash).
Same distance kept
Unlocked command dive kick
Crouching RoundHouse: Startup down from 9 to 7 frames. Give 1 more active
Ashura Senku: Unlocked: Kick version travelling distance is less than E.Ryu (if Kick version of teleport is done in front of oppoent, Oni travels only to appear behind the opponent) Kick version is not punishable (can block immediately). Punch version travels like akuma
Gohadoken: Goes further (still dissapears). Damage decreased to 50
EX Zanku Hadosho: Unlocked.
Goshoryuken and EX Goshoryuken: FADC-able on block and hit (on 2nd hit)
Rakan Dantojin Medium: fireball invincibility starts earlier (keeps same amount of fireball invincibilty overall)
Rakan Dantojin High: Considered -1 on block on back. fireball invincibility starts earlier (keeps same amount of fireball invincibilty overall)
Rakan Dantojin EX: Considered -2 on block on front and back
EX Demon stomp: Yellow Flash comes out later.
- Air Shungosatsu: Damage down from 370 to 350
- Meido Gohado (Air):Travel speed is faster. Can be canceled from EX Zanku
- Meido Gohado (Vertical): Hitbox is more wide. Fireball travel is slower
He can have all that unused stuff and he would barely move up in the tierlist. It definitely wouldn’t put him above Akuma. Capcom should let him have it.