complete speculation and guessing about 2012 (no order)
top - viper akuma sagat fei seth
very strong - abel sakura honda cammy rog cody guy adon ken guile cammy makoto rufus
middle - everyone else
bottom - gen hakan hawk
oni and e.ryu are going to have potential to not be bad. considering yun yang fei and viper all blew them up awfully in ae… i see them having much more of a fighting chance. i mean e.ryu vs viper felt like a straight up 8-2 matchup. one FFF combo and the dude is at half life and a short away from stun lol. he literally couldnt mess up once. either way dont sleep on these two.
Id go as far to say as Dan is as good as Gen or Gen is as good as Dan. I never feel threatened or feel like i can be gimmicked out by a gen. If i late tech against Dan and he decides to DP, I can eat fadc ultra. Dan kicks can also hurt viper
also every time someone puts dan in bottom tier with the usual candidates someone chimes up about it. i feel nearly the same fear level in dan and gen.
how much high level gen have you played against tho? there arent more than a handful of really good players that use gen, and most of the players that rep him online are terrible.
we have played a few times, and i consider myself pretty good with him, but i think ive only actually run into one other gen who was decent
Gen isn’t terrible. He has some of the best pokes in the game. People think he sucks because no one can play footsies. He gets really good damage off of really good pokes because they cancel into hands. Not to mention his super is top 3 in the game if not the best, easily hit confirmable off of his pokes into hands, full screen, and juggles into sweep or ultra, or he’s got that other version which is a super fast anti air.
He certainly isn’t exceptional, but he’s solid. His main problem is his low health and stun imo. If he had like 50 more health and stun he’d be pretty good imo.
I agree with most of your post, although I would add both twins to the very strong category. Guile can’t be better than them.
I think I saw you playing Viper against Wolfkrone on stream? If that’s you then you have a pretty decent viper. Have you tried her in 2012? Any news on that U1 hitbox change?
he’s a decent character. i dont really feel like he is going to be lacking anything, but he just has a few brutal matchups. yeah. lower tier. but theres worse characters
i just dont agree when people talk about him like he has nothing or he’s the worst.
health and stun really arent that big either. theyd help some, but the way his matches play out, it wouldnt matter that much. usually when you lose as gen, you get completely rushed down because you couldnt hold the neutral game well enough. so he’d end up still losing those same types of matches. it would help where it wasnt necessary
a better help IMO would be a smaller hurtbox on his low forward. it would boost his already character specific AA game, and stop him from guessing jump ins in a match like vs ken.
Ive played against one of the only other gen players (asiantom) through the end of vanilla and almost all of super, he switched to akuma because gen sucks
who really is lower than dan hakan hawk and gen? i could make a case for hawk not being low tier as well. i played that character FAR too long. the truth is though, there really isnt anyone WORSE than him. why would i pick hakan over gief or even hawk? dan over akuma, ken, etc? gen over chun? none of these characters really excel at anything more than any other character.
fallen - yeah that was me. krone beat me in my pool too our pool play was reallll sloppy. oh well, winterbrawl is comin up. aiming for first
i think this is a question some people keep forgetting. I’ve seen a lot of people say that dan or hakan are good or viable or whatever, and maybe they are, maybe they aren’t… but i never see those people say which characters they think are worse.
Doesn’t Gen combine having some legitimate options while still being somewhat of a mystery? In other words, he is complex enough that it is actually difficult to learn the matchup and he still has useful options even if you do learn it (it’s not just a gimmick).
I have no understanding of what that character is really capable of. Is the problem that the majority of his options don’t have a lot of value (more quantity than quality)?
A character like Dan is just a gimmick to me. I can’t really say if Gen is good or bad but he definitely has something solid to work with.
for one because gen dosent have that silly float jump, he isnt restricted to a charge for a reversal, and his oki game is a billion times better. chun cant hit confirm her pokes into 300dmg for 2 bars, or 600 for full super. matchups might make her a better character, but i get your point.
i disagree because gen has enough unique tools that he cant really be considered be a shittier version of someone else. dan has dan kicks. gen gets 2 diffrent jump arcs, safe jumps on every character, relatively safe 50/50s into ultra, a top 5ish ground game, unblockables, 3rd best kara throw. its not all gimmicks.
i would have definately have played him full time in AE if not for a character i was already greatly familiar with being S tier
and tom was one of the guys who wrote the character off prematurely. even yeb came back. gen is really suffering from under exposure at this point. we should get some matches whenever i start back playing on a regular basis hits lab
Balrog, Fei, Yun, Yang(dunno how the last 3 will fair now). I think Bison can be tricky because he can escape her on wake up better than most others and that’s Cammy’s real sweet spot imo. Dee Jay, Ryu, Akuma, Zangief slightly in their favor.
I think she’ll be where she is now, hovering around B+ and B with a whole lot of other characters. You see the big problem is the characters listed above are the ones you typically see in abundance at tournaments. She blows up a ton of characters but odds are you’re gonna run into a bunch of the listed. In 2012 it’ll be different because her toughest matches are nerfed but will she have to deal with a plethora of Balrogs, stronger Ryu’s? Does someone like Hakan become a bad match? I think she’ll be slightly more viable and more people will flock to her because she’s the high potential type character that a lot of personalities want a chance at seeing what they can do with her.
chun’s footsies are far superior to that of gens. she never really jumps unless its a safejump either. no reason to. i will agree that Gen is unique but i mean his best strength is his footsies. also i dont think gens kara throw is better than onis . i think as far as distance goes, vega > ken > oni > gen?. i dunno kinda moot but just saying.
we can play whenever. i dont think you’ll show me anything thats gonna make me think WOW gen really IS mid tier after all! its not like im saying he isnt viable, but really who is worse than gen?
although tom doesnt really play anymore, switching from gen to akuma in super was hardly a bad idea… gen lost EX oga and his godlike jump from vanilla and i dunno what else. akumas been top tier in every iteration of sf4 i dont think it was hardly premature, i mean i was giving him a lot of trouble with like month 1 hawk, using a loose idea of his SF4 footsies from ST.
speaking of characters with good buttons…hawk has some awesome ones. really underrated. too bad he cant combo off of ANY of them. wanna talk about fixing a character? if hawk could combo ex spire from far st.lk or far jabs he would instantly shoot up from not terrible to mid tier limbo
actually now that i think about it… maybe juri is worse then gen… it wouldnt surprise me if gen had better matches than her anyways. we’ve got a saying around here (and we do have a fairly competent juri) “how the fuck do you lose to juri?”
. i think as far as distance goes, vega > ken > oni > gen?. i dunno kinda moot but just saying.