SSFIV AE 2012 ALL character changes (FINAL )

[Gamogo]

lol… people who talk about tiers even before the final release is out… this is so stupid it’s even fun may I ask about the top tiers in SFxT, too?

Deebo.

Deebo is the strongest character in SFxT. Followed closely by Craig’s dad. Hell of a team.

[Schiff]

Deebo is always the strongest! No matter what! But Craig’s dad? No way… nooooo way

[HNIC_Mike]

I think that Fei will be dropping and will probably be in the top 5-10 range. His ground game, speed are insane and so was his damage output.
I wonder what hitbox adjustments are being made. I notice that the hitbox adjustment on his rekka’s in AE made them really a pain to deal with.

his rekkas have been the same. since vanilla.

[entrerix]

my prediction for top 15 for ae 2012

Sagat
Akuma
Seth
Fei Long
Ken
Viper
Balrog
Rufus
Cody
Sakura
Honda
Adon
Cammy
Abel
Dictator

thats pretty much in order, but obviously, this is extremely speculative. I do think that all these characters will be very viable though. also, yun, yang, and makoto could be in there, but the nerfs they got are so sweeping… i just don’t know where they would go, could be top 5, or could be 15-20 spots, just can’t even guess right now.

[Ellipsen]

my prediction for top 15 for ae 2012
snip
thats pretty much in order, but obviously, this is extremely speculative. I do think that all these characters will be very viable though. also, yun, yang, and makoto could be in there, but the nerfs they got are so sweeping… i just don’t know where they would go, could be top 5, or could be 15-20 spots, just can’t even guess right now.

Looks pretty good to me.

I would put Abel, + maybe Cody a bit higher, I agree with Seth and Gat being up there too. Rufus isnt talked about much but will be good.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

Makoto’s nerfs are hardly “sweeping”. Absolutely no frame data changes, a health nerf, slight damage reduction on Fukiage. The worst of the lot was the range reduction on EX Kara, but even then Karakusa’s more about setting up than just trying to blow through stuff from range anyway. All in all, she’ll be just fine. Not to mention a couple of buffs, like a better hitbox on her s.rh and nj.mp. None of her nerfs alter her gameplay in any significant way other than being able to take slightly less damage I suppose.

[HNIC_Mike]

Makoto’s nerfs are hardly “sweeping”. Absolutely no frame data changes, a health nerf, slight damage reduction on Fukiage. The worst of the lot was the range reduction on EX Kara, but even then Karakusa’s more about setting up than just trying to blow through stuff from range anyway. All in all, she’ll be just fine. Not to mention a couple of buffs, like a better hitbox on her s.rh and nj.mp. None of her nerfs alter her gameplay in any significant way other than being able to take slightly less damage I suppose.

so better or worse than current AE?

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

Slightly worse, but not by much at all. It’s hard to predict where she’s gonna fall though. A lot of her matchups have probably shifted around due to the rest of the cast’s changes. Some got better, some got worse.

[HNIC_Mike]

thats kinda how i feel about gen. he got plenty of buffs on paper, but his already bad matches got buffed too. he’ll have an easier time with fireball characters with his new ex moves, and fei and yun nerfs help, but i feel like it will actually be harder for him in this version despite the list of improvements

[Perfect_Frames]

my prediction for top 15 for ae 2012

Sagat
Akuma
Seth
Fei Long
Ken
Viper
Balrog
Rufus
Cody
Sakura
Honda
Adon
Cammy
Abel
Dictator

thats pretty much in order, but obviously, this is extremely speculative. I do think that all these characters will be very viable though. also, yun, yang, and makoto could be in there, but the nerfs they got are so sweeping… i just don’t know where they would go, could be top 5, or could be 15-20 spots, just can’t even guess right now.

I agree with most of your placements except for Cammy and Ken, personally I would switch those two. The only reason Ken shot up from mid-tier in vanilla and super to being placed somewhere in the top 10 or top 5 in AE was because he gained a way of comboing into an UTK. Now that his sweep is 8f again, and he can no longer combo into it from a St.LP, I think he is going to definitely drop down in tiers. Unless of course, his new ghetto rekka TC and slightly better poke (F.ST.HK) are somehow better than I am anticipating. He will still be in the upper end of the spectrum, due to the other buffs he has received, but he definitely won’t be top 5.I actually think Ryu may have the edge again now between the two.

[Blueberry]

I never see Guile in your lists, although, I think that he’s gained a lot of his old stuff from super which will make him in the top 15 in my view. Shit, the counter hit on SB alone is a huge improvement, and with the airthrow getting even faster, flashkicks doing more damage and U2 extra juggle hits, he’s going to be excellent.

[EmblemLord]

Why care about the top ONE, when between 1 and 5 or 1 and 10 won’t be that much of a difference.

I think he’ll be similar to Fei in '12. Won’t play fancy with mixups and whatnot but will be strong thru fundamental play of zoning/footsies. In other words “boring.”

I’m sorry but out of all the REAL SF chars, the Emperor is by FAR the most fun.

[entrerix]

I never see Guile in your lists, although, I think that he’s gained a lot of his old stuff from super which will make him in the top 15 in my view. Shit, the counter hit on SB alone is a huge improvement, and with the airthrow getting even faster, flashkicks doing more damage and U2 extra juggle hits, he’s going to be excellent.

wtf? guile? excellent? man i want what you’re on…

i main guile, and there is no goddamn way guile is in the top 15. no. way. You aren’t going to see guile win a major that has legit akuma, fei long, seth, (abel) and viper players, too many 7-3 matchups.

edit: and yeah i know dieminion beat an abel player at big two last night, but that says more about how great dieminion is than how good guile as a character is.

edit: also, guile was NOT top tier in Super, and 2012 guile is a shadow of what he was in super, where his backfist did 120 damage, and the range on his airthrow was far enough out he could really use it. the biggest thing overall though, is that the meter gain on his booms is still garbage, and he causes no hitstun with them, so he can’t even go on the offense if he wanted too. not to mention sonic hurricane now does laughable damage. the ONLY thing that might help guile from what i can see (and im not an expert, so go ask gilley) is if some new tech gets found with his UDK in v2012, could be a way to blow up crouch techs, but then again maybe not.

[azproc]

Mild unrelated comment from tier discussion.
What happens to all the non-Japanese AE cabs? Will they be getting the update? If so how???

[gilley]

I never see Guile in your lists, although, I think that he’s gained a lot of his old stuff from super which will make him in the top 15 in my view. Shit, the counter hit on SB alone is a huge improvement, and with the airthrow getting even faster, flashkicks doing more damage and U2 extra juggle hits, he’s going to be excellent.

Stuff he got back from super…
CH on LP SB gone
CH on MP SB gone
CH on HP SB gone
n+airthrow startup 3f
b+airthrow startup 3f

That’s 5 out of the 21 nerfs guile received. That’s hardly a lot and they didn’t revert the other really bad nerfs.

[Ninicism]

Nonsense.

I was a dedicated Hyper and ST player and found SF3 hilarious. I couldn’t bring myself to transition to it because I considered it an inferior game.

But that’s just my opinion (and many others at the time where we had a solid ST community) and certainly not indicative of all SF2/ST players at the time. My point is you can’t make sweeping generalisations such as the one you did. People’s preferences differ because everyone is different. No blanket statement is going to cover a group of people’s opinion of a game.

To add to this, I really like IV. Many ST players consider it a steaming pile of shit which also goes against the preconceived grain people seem to have of players who have a historic preference for <x> version of SF2/3.

You know I’ve never understood that mentality. I think ST, SF4, and 3s are all very, very good games. If people would be a little more open minded I think they would realize that all those games are excellent.

And I don’t think Ken will make top 5 like a couple of people have listed. His comboable 7 frame sweep was really what made him as good as he was in AE. It really complemented him as a mix up character. Not saying he’ll be bad, but there’s definitely better picks for top five in 2012. His buffs were pretty meh.

[caruga]

Sagat was heavily nerfed from vanilla and just look how strong he turned out to be anyway.

It’s a bit different there. Vanilla->Super saw massive damage reductions across the whole cast. AE->2012 sees buffs to most of the cast. Not saying it couldn’t turn out that way, though.

[Westlo]

I like how every top player listed Cammy as high tier but none of them played her, with her slight but important buff as well as the nerfing of the top tiers, especially Yun and Yang I hope to see a few top level Cammy players, new or old.

As for Ken he was in the 5-8 range in AE, he’s probably in the 7-15 range atm, his ceiling depending on how good his buffs are… he had a healthy arcade representation in AE only behind the Top 3 and Sagat, hopefully it stays the way and doesn’t turn into an Akuma type situation where next to no one legit plays him… looks @ last Michael-tan ranked match vid being Sagat

and personally, i think the damage is actually pretty big. removing a practical 400 dmg combo from a command grab and replacing that same instance with 250 is pretty big. 9 characters or not. i ran his new dmg values thru the scaling calculator, i can post the comparisons if you like.

That combo was bullshit, the fact that it survived 2 re-balances before getting shut down is dumb as fuck.

[Veserius]

Kindevu played Cammy. He’s top 10 in cammy BP in arcade, and he played her in teams at Canada Cup IIRC

[HNIC_Mike]

That combo was bullshit, the fact that it survived 2 re-balances before getting shut down is dumb as fuck.

true, not denying it in the least. but that kinda makes my case. it was a really good tool, bullshit or not, and now its gone. its a serious game changer when you can command grab into 450 with 2 bars

fall behind against one of those characters and it isnt a big deal. i know if i can get a command grab, i can win the round. thats not the case any more