the only reason why characters other than yun, yang, fei, and viper were doing anything in AE was because US basically refused to play top tier. tournies in japan were half yuns, in the US there were very few.
you have to remember your local metagame isn’t the game at large. I’m used to fighting twins in every tournament I play in at the least.
im thinking akuma, and sagat are going to be the 2 best. after that, everyone is pretty close. heres my theory list without seeing one bit of completed gameplay, or playing myself
A+ akuma, sagat
**A ** ken, seth, viper
B+ abel, adon, bison, blanka, cammy, chun, cody, e.ryu, fei, gief, guile, hakan, hawk, honda, juri, makoto, oni, rog ,rufus, ryu, sakura, yang, yun, vega,
**B ** dan, deejay, dudley, fuerte, gen, gouken, guy, ibuki, rose, sim,
individual groupings not in order by the way. no dominant characters, and with the right player, i think every character has a legit shot barring running into one of the games lopsided 7-3 or worse matches
SSF4:NBE-no bitching edition
Blanka has one of the hardest hitting Ultra in the game…
Blanka damage potential is even easier… just land either his 1 frame c.LK/c.MK to U1 or if you get counter hit setup you can even use his 3 frame s.LP to do it…
that’s why there’s so many top tier Blanka players in finals at all events!!!11!11!!11!
-LAU
whats funny about your sarcasm statement is that the really good blankas do hit the 1 frame into ultra stuff.
hell, i dont even play blanka, and i can hit the short, short ultra link
I’ve thinking about some stuff with Rose and maybe I’m being to optimistic…but it wouldn’t surprise me if she slightly go up in the tier list, even if a lot got much more/better buffs than her. This really the best version of her and I think if played well, she has… “potential” if you can call like that.
- her regular bnb does more damage (ANY damage buff for Rose is a plus)
- her soul piede is back
- she has an easier way to land her U1 (IMO) which still does 498 damage
- some of her matchups are now easier
yeah I think she will be way better but only time can tell…
top tier ? no / high tier ? no / mid tier ? a HUGE MAYBE
Maybe I’m just being delusional…bleh
youre probrablly right, but if youre not, i dont think mid or low tier is going to be that bad. its more about whether or not you have losing 7-3s to deal with.
I don’t think saying “moving up” or “moving down” is a good way to say a character got stronger. If Rose, for example, got stronger, but so did everyone else (besides obvious top tiers), she’ll stay right where she is.
Also, v2012 tiers feel even more condensed than SSF4: The strongest character is a nerfed Akuma and the weakest are heavily buffed Gouken and Hakan. Talking about going up or down doesn’t seem right. If anything, I believe there’ll be only A and B tiers. Taking the last Eventhubs’ published SSF4 tierlist as base, I could say Gouken, Dudley and Hakan are at least at Rose’s level now.
You cant say that this way. You have to look at WHAT got buff and nerfed.
While Zangief and Rose didnt get nerfed, the fact that Rose’s Piede got her vanilla hitbox back, there’s a possibility that the matchup turns slightly in her favor (IMO since it was mostly 5-5 in AE for them unless gief brings her to the corner) so saying “if everybody got buffed than it won’t change anything” is false.
Btw Rose has an easier deal with top tier characters than Gouken Dudley and Hakan (even with the recent buffs) so I don’t think they are at her level.
But bleh…only time will tell
How do I know? Because lowering (Sorry to talk about Akuma again.) Akuma’s damage didn’t nerf his vortex going from Vanilla. What nerfed it was the change to grab flip so you couldn’t OS it any more and the nerf to his stun. In Vanilla you had 3 guesses in most cases to guess right or else you were stunned. Now you have more like 5 or 6 tries.
Rufus is another example. Nerfing Rufus’s damage didn’t nerf a lot of his game. Getting picked out of the air into EX Snake is still very damaging for a simple AA.
You have to nerf damage a lot to make a huge effect, but if you nerf functionality the impact is much greater.
that was the point…
it’s not all about damage.
-_-;
damage from combos that’s supposedly hard to do don’t make a character top tier.
-LAU
My point was even if you master his links & counter hit setups into U2 (which are the key ingrediants to making the character dangerous) his defensive options will still hold him back & will deter a lot of players from picking him up…all you did was agree with me.
A few people actually think Makoto’s gonna be low tier in 2012? Y’all are out of your gords.
who said she was low. i dont have her as top 5, but shes right in the next group
As a Makoto main I think she is going to be VERY solid. She wont be top tier (hell, even in AE she shifts in and out of top 10 depending on who you ask.), but she certainly wont be LOW tier.
She received a lot of pointless buffs (and one good one with her s.HK hitbox) and a lot of pointless nerfs (most noticeably her ex-karakusa range) but overall her effectiveness will be dependent on how the metagame shifts around her. I can’t picture her being any higher or lower than B+.
I think the hardcore Makoto players will do what they’ve done since super, keep playing and obsessing about every little facet of their character trying to squeeze out as much bang for your buck out of the little firecracker.
Ryu getting a hadouken damage buff and anti air buff.
I just wanted to mention that.
Nonsense.
I was a dedicated Hyper and ST player and found SF3 hilarious. I couldn’t bring myself to transition to it because I considered it an inferior game.
But that’s just my opinion (and many others at the time where we had a solid ST community) and certainly not indicative of all SF2/ST players at the time. My point is you can’t make sweeping generalisations such as the one you did. People’s preferences differ because everyone is different. No blanket statement is going to cover a group of people’s opinion of a game.
To add to this, I really like IV. Many ST players consider it a steaming pile of shit which also goes against the preconceived grain people seem to have of players who have a historic preference for <x> version of SF2/3.
That’s the point, you are absolutely right. characters like Cody or Makoto have such a bad wakeup that you even don’t need a good safejump setup. Makoto can backdash (if you know that your op doesn’t OS). But Cody can’t even backdash because his backdash can be punished by nearly every LP or LK ^^ He’s very free on wakeup. I think that is the reason why he’ll never be top tier.
Neverthetless he is very dangerous when he gets the chance to hit his enemy.
Momochi showed that Cody can be very strong… but you can’t compare this guy to other Cody players 
I personally think Cody’s buffs are largely being overstated, though I’d like to be pleasantly surprised.
One aspect about Cody is that I feel he might actually be benefiting from a bit of Fei syndrome. That is, the dude actually has some serious damage and stun output in AE and from what I can tell, he walks into 2012 that that damage and stun output intact.
That’s a pseudo buff right there. Consider how Fei’s damage output in vanilla and super was pretty much par for the course but in AE it was considered borderline obscene for that game’s damage standards. Cody seems to be almost repeating that aspect which is interesting to consider (at least for me it is) and in the face of many stronger characters receiving damage nerfs, elevates him somewhat in the damage/stun arena at least.
Cody’s strengths also seems to be in numbers lately with him being subjected to a healthy dose of popularity which helps explore the character well. If 2012 remains stable for a good while, I’d like to hope more obscure or less used characters see comparable attention so their game properly develops. 2012’s evened out balance keel seems to suggest this is entirely possible if the game receives some deserved longevity.
Momochi’s use of Cody certainly gave the character’s development a kick in the pants. Who knows what is possible with any character that receives a high level player’s undivided attention? Those of us in the Akuma camp between bouts of crying and swearing at Capcom are being pleasantly surprised by the unique take Daigo has with Akuma right now. Here’s hoping the Japanese Yun army disperses to new characters and we see similar stuff from other respected players.
Cody can EX-Zonk which is invincible till active for full body. It is unsafe on block and can’t auto correct but it is safer than any reversal that Makoto has. Cody is less free on wakeup than Makoto, but he is def got one of the weaker wakeup options in the game.