The translation on eventhubs has a different order.
These numbers are definitely a little biased.
A safe jump combo is about 360 with the dp, 320 if you sweep, 390 if you spend one bar of meter for the ex dp, and 430 if you spend two bars. Unless your still hit confirming the jabs, that should be the damage your getting. You have plenty of time to confirm a st. hp, or cr. hp for your bnb off of a j. hk.
An empty jump is only 177 if you don’t put a cr. mp in the combo and you go into sweep as an ender. You can get up to about 240 meterless off of an empty jump, which isn’t shabby.
You also don’t mention other really powerful high damage set ups like empty palm cross up, where you palm to land on the other side as opposed to if you had just done df kick it wouldn’t have crossed up. If you have two bars you can do the empty palm cross up and just hit confirm st. hp xx fb and get 380 damage if they guess wrong. Also, you didn’t mention ambiguous j. down mk where you can land over 300 damage completely meterless.
Also, you can get 270 off of X-tatsu with one meter, which is huge for an option as good as tatsu.
It’s also important to mention that akuma’s mix ups lead into eachother much better, since palm, x up tatsu sweep, df throw, and lk tatsu sweep all lead to untechable knockdowns.
The actual mix ups vary from medium to really high damage and usually don’t even require you to spend much meter in the process.
wat
Yea but the one here is the proper order he put them in on his blog.
keep it real
sigh Those numbers are far from biased.They are realistic not theory fighter.
Those are the standard mix ups you should be using to keep someone pressured. Sure if you want to maximize damage you can go for half the things you listed…IF YOU WANT TO LET THE PERSON OUT! I guess you forgot that part. Half those options you only go for when you can kill the person. Not as part of your normal mix up game. You have to mix someone up 3 or 4 times before you even think about using those options
If you use c.MP it causes the LK Tatsu to whiff on 60% of the cast unless it is spacing perfect. That is why I generally use c.LP x2 instead. It hits against everyone except Balrog.
You can get 270…if you want to lose all offensive pressure. The SRK option has no follow up. What I gave is Tatsu Sweep. Aka the option you will use 99.9% of the time.
The reason I don’t list empty palm cross up is because it is a gimmick that isn’t safe. Auto corrects eat it alive. And 380 damage really? If you actually try to perform the way you are suppose to you are in no way getting 380 damage off of it.
What I listed is your average damage per mix up, not the extreme. That is what you are listing. That is like me saying E.Ryu is the best in the game because he can land 400 damage combos with very little meter, but at the same time he doesn’t have a way to consistently land that damage.
Keeping it ignorant.
Down mk and cross up empty palm are things you can use in your normal mix up game easily. But I’m guessing that you’re talking about using the EX dp as a finisher. It’s perfectly valid to use on characters whom you can’t tatsu sweep, as well as using it to kill and bringing someone within chip death. So, EX dp finisher definitely has valid uses, and can be commonly used in your matches. These are things that are definitely worth mentioning along with your obviously biased post.
You have been an Akuma main since the beginning right? You should have a good idea of what whiffs on who by now. So you can still use it against the characters it doesn’t whiff on.
Lol, it’s easy to do it meaty and make it safe. You just have to set it up. Lol “auto corrects eat it alive,” being a counter argument to its effectiveness. Same old week one vanilla mentality of “I can’t beat Ryu because he dp’s all my pokes.” As if it having a counter measure makes it useless. As if it’s impossible, with all of Akuma’s amazing options, to teach someone to not dp on wake up, or to even just read how the player is going to react to the knockdown. And yes, as I said, if you have two bars you can do the mix up with st. hp xx fb and hit confirm into the fadc. Easy stuff, amazing damage.
That’s exactly what you’re trying to do by literally only mentioning the lowest possible damaging options (saying that a safe jump combo is only 290 immediately gave away your bias from the beginning. You’re hoping that you can just bullshit people, unfortunately that’s not going to happen. Nice try, though.
Even on characters you can’t sweep there are still better options that give you better position. LP SRK or HK tatsu to name a few. HP.SRK and EX.SRK almost always ends your pressure string which defeats the purpose of the vortex. Again Akuma 101.
Not to mention most characters where half those set ups are useful against you can Sweep and the rest there are other set ups. For instance Rufus and Bison you can c.MP > Demon flip for a safe jump reset.
On the characters who c.MP works on it adds about 24 damage…nothing spectacular. So I do about 211 if I actually want to end it with a sweep. Big deal lol.
Seriously try it against someone who is ready for it. You will lose pressure very quickly.
And once again you aren’t looking at the realistic option. If you just s.HP YOU WILL GET THROWN. So if you actually wanted to do it right like I told you you would c.LK+c.LP to throw tech in case they attempt to throw you because you will not get any normal off before they have a chance to throw. Which means you collect about the same damage as an empty jump.
No I am trying to mention the most realistic mix ups. Ok not some idealized damage that you might land maybe once a round and usually if the other guy is not playing smart or makes a critical mistake.
The realistic heavy hitting mix ups are cross up fireball, ambiguous cross up set ups (Which dive kick isn’t one against anyone except Sagat and Gief), and Safe jumps people don’t want to block.
Quit calling me biased when you are not talking about anything realistic. I know what the fuck I am talking about. Once again I will tell you, if you actually want to maximize Akuma you won’t do have the crap you are talking about.
Those aren’t at all definitively better options, because they don’t give you untechable knockdowns. LP srk doesn’t even give you a knockdown as good as Ken’s fp DP. Sometimes just taking the damage and backing off is the better strategy, especially with a character like akuma who has such powerful defensive options. A cr. mp reset isn’t really all that compelling either honestly.
Which why I said you don’t use it on characters that whiff? 24 damage is absolutely worth it if you know it’s going to land. If you empty jump cross up and do it, it’s pretty easy to make it not whiff consistently on most characters. Consistent enough to make it worth that 24.
I’m not just saying do it willy nilly. Not to mention you can actually bait the throw animation by empty cross up with with df kick, which actually baits the throw because it hangs in the air longer, then you immediately go into lk lp lp combo and it punishes the throw attempt. I learned that shit from Hsien Chang who I watched land that shit all the time. So, if your opponent is competent enough to know that he can throw it you can still bait the throw whiff and punish. Then once you teach your opponent that mashing throw like that can be bad, he’s less likely to press buttons in the situation and this allows you do use the mix up. Not to mention, most people don’t stand throw like that anyways, unless they know it’s coming, and in that case you deserve to get thrown. Most people, if they expect df kick, will just crouch block and then delay cr. tech for a long time because the massive block stun for the move. If they’re doing this, then you can still land the mix up. If you’re good enough and you have your opponent worried about all your options, then it’s easy to forget about others and make a mistake. No one is god, no one can play perfect and it’s ignorant to disregard a mix up like this as if it is never worth using ever.
So, conveniently forgetting about options like down mk not factoring in the fact that he can use meter effectively to gain a lot of damage out put, and saying that an average viper mix up does as much damage as 4 akuma mix ups isn’t biased? I think you’re alone in this one, bud.
Oh, duh I forgot about cross up fb of course. Another one you purposely excluded untill I called you out. Safe jumps land on people who don’t block and more importantly block WRONG because of akuma’s tatsu.
Hmmm which option would I prefer…keep someone in my mix up game or let them out for free after working so hard to get in…
LP.SRK recovers faster than the other SRKs which gives you time to get within range to play a footsie game as the opponent fast rises. In order words allows you to play a pressure game. Likewise HK.Tatsu leaves you in perfect position against several characters. Less damage for better pressure. Rather common theme among all Akuma players who are worth anything, especially Tokido who often burns two bars just to get the knockdown for less damage.
It can whiff on basically every skinny character in the game unless you are perfectly point blank. The distance between whiff and not whiff is hard to identify so instead I go for the option that always gives me the result I want. It isn’t this magical 300+ you keep spouting off either way. It works out to about 200 damage for a mix up that you have to train your opponent to use in the first place.
Um you do know that DF kick is punishable on whiff right? Yea just checking…
I am saying against anyone who knows how to defend against cross up palm will beat it consistently. Palm has 4 frames of recovery plus at least another 3 to get the normal off if you land at the same time as your opponent rises and if you time it too early your mix up loses its potential. Your opponent can always do something about it. It is gimmicky and it depends on your opponent to do nothing.
sigh DOWN MK IS A SAFE JUMP NOT A CROSS UP!! SERIOUSLY! STOP TALKING RIGHT NOW!
It doesn’t have enough hit stun or priority to use as a cross up. Hell it barely has enough to use as a safe jump. You can hit someone and they will recovery before you land. It is negative on hit! Not to mention IT RARELY CROSSES UP! You use it in a way that the last frame hits on your opponents first wake up frame. It works as a 4 frame safe jump against characters that are normally hard to safe jump.
So you want to know why I didn’t include it? BECAUSE IT ISN’T USEFUL AS A CROSS UP!
I can’t believe I am having to explain this to you.
Yea nice try
VERY FIRST POST I LISTED THE DAMAGE! Keep digging your own grave. You only look stupider with each post.
Tournament level players don’t have a problem blocking safe jumps.
Yea, but there’s a huge difference between taking more damage vs taking an untechable knockdown, and taking more damage vs taking a weak techable knockdown. With the weak knockdown your opponent has more options and yours are more limited. It’s definitely not always worth it to give up that damage for a weak knockdown. Thing is you can’t definitely prove that lp srk or hk tatsu are definitively better options, nor is saying shit like “all akuma’s worth there salt agree with me” an actual argument that shows those options are better.
We’ve been over this. Use on the characters that work. Practice your jumping spacing and jump timing and if your execution is good you shouldn’t whiff it. It’s that simple.
You do know that essentially everything in the game is punishable? Saying something is punishable therefore useless shows me that you don’t understand how high level play in fighting games work. You read your opponent, punish that option with one of your options that beat it. So, in this case I read a wake up throw, I punish wake up throw to stop you from pressing buttons. Then I can start doing my other mix ups. It’s not gimmicky at all. It’s called understanding your opponents tendencies, conditioning your opponent to to a certain thing, and then punishing them for allowing you to condition them.
Who said it’s usable as a cross up? Either you misread something or I miscommunicated something in my post. It changes your jump arc so that you can fake a cross up. You can hit from the front where you would normally jump over the person to cross up. It doesn’t have good hit stun, but it has enough to be used as a meaty and you can combo off of it on every character consistently barring the tallest characters in the game. It’s a great mix up option and one you should have mentioned.
Lol, man you’re the only one getting upset here. Usually when people get upset in a discussion it’s because they’re being told they’re wrong. Your wrong, and your emotionally attached to the idea of being right. Talk about ego problem, most normal mentally healthy people would have responded to my post with, “Oh ok maybe I’m being a little biased.” Not you, you go on a rage fest because you don’t like being wrong.
This is the part of the post I responded to, and I don’t see x up fb on here, so what are you talking about again? You left it out of the list that I responded to and you did it on purpose.
Rose should have the same vortex capabilities as Akuma but with Viper’s damage.
Next subject please.
Lol you want to know why I am getting upset with you? Because so far you haven’t said a single true thing and are currently talking out of ignorance and yet you have the balls to tell me I am dishonest an biased.
To which I say you are the one talking out of stupidity
Seriously guys, this is a stupid argument.
It is…you guys should PM each other…start talking about tier list or something, back and forth clutters the thread up too much, when a simply live chat would work better for the back’n’forthness of your argument.
Well, you’re a poopy doopy face. And you’re a dumb dumb booty head. Therefore, your arguments are invalid.
See I can do that too. Doesn’t help my argument much though.
Anyways, I’ve said my piece. No more need to clog up this thread to show the obvious.
way to run straight into insults. top akuma players i play against dont waste dmg on jab, jab. if they land a jump in, close fierce gets in there somewhere
Yea off a regular jump in not an empty jump.
It is hard to combo a s.HP off a c.LK
empty jumps, landed jump ins, whatever. close fierce gets in there. just sayin
anyway, anybody have any idea when we can get some new info. shits out in like a month, and its free. why so tight lipped
oh damn one more loc test on the 30th Nov
say whaaaaa