I can only speak as a Sagat main and she completely nullifies my char. She does what I do better and the only way I wi nis off a good read into Ultra set-up or I’m just flat out better.
She hits harder then me, has better comeback potential and due to my chars large hurtbox I have alot of problems with vortex that I don’t have when I play Adon or something.
*shrug
It is what it is and I don’t think anyone can call BS on this post.
The reason you CAN’T just OS DP is because it loses to back dash for a full combo. Or in other words, it is an UNSAFE OS because if Viper correctly guesses that OS you will eat a FFF for massive damage and stun.
In addition you can’t OS Akuma’s HP DP because it whiffs through feints so you have to OS his jab DP. His Jab DP trades with TK and also EX Burn kick goes untouched trough it. So if you actually want to beat what Viper is doing to keep pressure you have to choose different OSes. You have to use a mix up EX.Tatsu, HP.SRK, no OS, and even OS ultra to keep viper players on their toe. Compared to most characters though Viper always has a decent option to get out with little to no damage.
I study OSes relentlessly and know how each and every one of my OSes can lose.
I also wrote the thread on it.
lol. people are afraid to call out their characters bullshit for what it is. every character works soooo hard, and youre always making super pro status reads with your vortexes and such. yup. and im playing super pro footsies when i send you full screen to the corner with some rekkas as fei
whats so wrong about accepting your character has some easy free shit. its ok. it dosent make you a bad person
At the same time, what’s with the people who assume everything takes no skill to use?
Some mix ups are more brainless than others. Things like cross up burn kick, kunai, or cross up tatsu sure those don’t require much thought because the game itself creates those mix ups. If you time your set up properly then odds are you don’t even know which way the opponent is suppose to block.
At the same time when you deal with mix ups that aren’t ambiguous by themselves those mix ups do take skill to maximize their effectiveness. Mix ups like throw vs traps where the player has to choose which option to go for does take a degree of skill to make a true mix up. If I simply just jab twice and go for a throw how is that a mix up? It isn’t and good opponents will see that and tech me every time. Instead if I realize that I’ve trained my opponent that two jabs = throw attempt then I can jab twice and pretend to grab and instead use a LP.SRK to blow up their throw tech. Nearly any kind of mix up where the player has to make a conscious choice on which option to use isn’t as brainless. You do have to realize your opponents tendencies in order to maximize those mix ups.
I will say that the vast majority of players are ignorant about what kind of set ups actually exist against their characters and that is half of what solid player exploit against them. Hell I’ve know some really really good Ryu players who didn’t know that Akuma has an unblockable against them. They keep wondering why they can’t block an obvious cross up and rage hard about it. I’ve personally been taking initiative to learn about the various set ups against Akuma because if I understand how they work I have a much better chance of escaping. Even if it improves my chances by 5% I’ll take it. That 5% could be a critical moment in grand finals.
Not in an ambiguous x-up situation, which is what happens most of the times anyway. If Gouki does something like sweep, DF kick, he is in control of the timing (and spacing, depending on how he landed the sweep). In that situation Viper can’t EX Seismo/feint, backdash, HP thunder knuckle/feint (should theoretically be able to feint with with frame perfect timing and then guess-blocking the right way, but again, she doesn’t control the timing). She can dash forward, but it’s a big risk because you can end up dashing into him, the same with FA dashing. Her only practical option is EX Burn Kick, which is her standard escape out of the vortex anyway, so it’s punishable if read. Basically it’s a guess for both players, but as just like in most other matchups, it’s stacked in Goukis favour.
Shotos can beat Viper up close with straight-up ground pressure. She’s got some really nice tools to get out of certain situations but her defense is not as good as people make it out to be.
Um the dive kick rarely crosses up. There isn’t much abiguity about it. Hold back and you will block it 95% of the time.
Besides I don’t like using it too much because the timing against Viper is tight compared to others and id she trades a TK it is a free ultra.
… and Gouki lands on the other side and you eat a combo. It’s never just as simple as just holding back, especially for Viper. Viper has a fucked up hit-box. That’s why it’s so easy for many chars to land unblockables against her. He doesn’t even have to do the DF K either, it’s just one of his many options.
I’m not gonna argue about Viper vs Gouki. I believe that the match may be in Viper’s favour because of her damage output, but that doesn’t change the fact that the guessing game on her wakeup is stacked in his favour. He may not be able to cover 100% of her options 100% of the time, but there’s no reason he should be able to do that.
…it’s a good thing that she doesn’t get any reward for taking damage. Especially one that can be comboed into. 
I think it’s stupid design. They should remove the ability to combo into Ultra off trades for all characters. As it stands, Viper has to be able to combo into at least another HP TK off a trade otherwise she loses out badly, especially in matches vs big health chars. I certainly wouldn’t complain if they removed that and just buffed her HP TK with more damage or a smaller hurtbox so that it doesn’t trade as much.
Honestly you have plenty of time to confirm which side he lands on. Not to mention you can actually tell which side before he even hits if you understand the spacing. In addition if Akuma spaces his dive kick too high you can actually Focus and forward dash through the dive kick and in some cases actually punish it.
Over the dive kick is not a good mix up because it is random and inconsistent for that purpose. You use it when you want to play the ground game instead of the air game because it forces your opponent to block. That is the sole purpose of the dive kick. The only characters you can do crazy mix ups against are really large characters like Gief or Sagat. If you really want to mix up a Viper player (and I am not talking about random Xbox live scrubs either. I am talking about solid players) you have to use safe jump set ups which means you have to play the OS guessing game against Viper.
It isn’t so stacked as you make it out to be. To be honest Viper has some of the better array of options to get out of Akuma’s mix ups which is another reason the match up isn’t great for Akuma. Besides if you actually compare the damage Akuma gets off of one mix up compared to Viper it isn’t even close. Akuma gets the same damage off of 3-4 mix ups compared to Viper’s 1.
it takes 3-4 mixups to do 400 damage with akuma? wow. are you doing jab jab lowforward like youre dj?
[SIZE=20px]Uryo’s AE 2012 Tier Rankings Prediction[/SIZE]
Top Tier: Akuma, Seth, Abel, Makoto, Dictator, Boxer, Claw, Sagat, Guile, Rufus, Sakura, Cammy, Adon, Viper, Fei-Long, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Juri, Ken
Mid Tier: Honda, Blanka, Gen, Evil-Ryu, Oni, Ryu, Yun, Yang, Ibuki
Low Tier: Zangief, El Fuerte, Gouken, Rose, Dan, T-Hawk, Deejay, Guy, Dudley, Hakan
Note: Cody seems to be missing from the list.
Let’s actually take a look at the damage you get off your typical mix up options.
Flip Palm = 110
Flip Grab = 150
X-Tatsu = 170
Empty jump = 177
OS Sweep = 90
Safe jump = (Combo dependent usually about 290)
OS Ultra = 300-500
In terms of actual damage Akuma’s good mix ups don’t do much. It isn’t till you get the “money” mix ups that you can do a reasonable amount. The high damage options are easy to block or get out of. In fact the highest damage mix ups are the option select ultras, but that is usually from someone trying to be mash out back dash or something of the sort and those OSes don’t exist against every character.
It isn’t uncommon to mix someone up 4 or 5 times and they are still alive and unstunned. Don’t believe me then just play Akuma and see. You’ll find that every Akuma player notes this. Akuma got the living hell nerfed out of his stun damage back in Super. One of the things that made his vortex dangerous in Vanilla was you only had 2 or 3 times to guess right before you were stunned. Now you have more like 5-6
In order to get the high damage mix ups you have to first land the lower order mix ups. Things like cross up fireballs, ambiguous corner cross ups, and many other higher damage mix ups first require a special knockdown such as flip palm or forward throw. You can’t just do them off any old sweep. Till then you are just getting chump change unless your opponent is playing like an idiot.
Compare that to Viper’s mix ups and you will see exactly what I mean. Especially considering many of her mix ups can end in Ultra 1.
everyone of your mixups sans os sweep does more than burn kick does now.
i have to land either FFF or FFlowforward mk tk to do 350-400. maybe even an ultra to break 400 lol.
Considering you can go into Ultra off a combo ending in EX Seismo I think you can do a little more than just 400…Come on, you and I both know Viper lands more mix ups than just a burn kick and half of them have some combo into Ultra. I listed all the common mix ups Akuma will be using the least you could do is be honest about the mix ups Viper can land. She has the best burst damage in the game in addition to some of the most scary stun damage.
Akuma’s mix ups are tough to deal with not going to lie, but in terms of stun and damage it can take quite a bit to kill anything. This isn’t Vanilla Akuma who can stun you in two mix ups.
Woah, Uryo has Akuma #1!
Maybe thats why Daigo is playing around with him?
her mixups are all based off feints and positioning. what other mixups does she have besides low short, seismo, crossup j.rh/j.mk and burnkick? her mixups all work together for sure but its not like i can say okay i got a hardknock down cause i can combo into sweep and i can go into X move and these are my options out of it. its more like oh well i hit them with (lets say) seismo, which version? mp? how far am i? can i create a crossup burnkick situation? are they going to back dash if i dash towards them and then i can catch with mp tk? maybe i should go for a safe jump rh xx mk air bk for a crossup. maybe sj instant lk burn kick incase they flinch. okay maybe i can dash up lowforward mp tk feint lowforward mp tk.
no ones arguing she doesnt do a lot of damage or stun fast. ive said it before and i know this is true. i cant create a vortex off of a comboable sweep and then have ambiguous setups. i can safe jump with rh which can cross up and lead to big beefy combos , but so does anyone elses jump in combos, hers are easier to hit with though. i can do a burn kick right over your head to bait reversals which you can neutral jump with me to make whiff, alter your hurtbox so itll whiff, or block and wait. i can do a similar burn kick but itll crossup. or i can go into block strings with feints and hope you start to get nervous. or i can go into my overhead which is focus punishable.
I don’t know if that is an ordered top tier or just an general one.
I’ve said her best work is on a standing opponent where she can pressure the living crap out of them. She is less of a vortex in the traditional sense and more of a character who you don’t want to stay still against, but if you don’t you can eat massive damage.
Yea maybe just very general, but to list him first probably implies he thinks he is quite strong.
lols yun went from s to mid tier? I thought he would still be borderline top
and wtf guy is still trash 
oh well at least evil ryu got better